User talk:Ararat arev

Phrygians

"Nahrin", as well as its Armenian derivation, "Nayiri", is of Semitic origin. "Nahr" means river in Arabic. There are still some Assyrians who have names like "Nahrina". About the Phrygians... A nation such as that of the Armenians can have components. In our case, it's the Armens, Hayasa, Mitanni, Phyrgians, Mushkis, etc. -- Davo88 19:16, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, you're right I understand. Have you seen Gevork's site? armenianhighland.com? Are you azgaser? or arevordi? These are sites on our history too. :) Check out my myspace page. http://myspace.com/30451865 Our younger Hyes need to wake up and find out about our history. This year markes 4,500 of Navasard (Haik calendar) The Armenian language is unique compared to all other languages. Hurrian and Sumerian cuneiforms indicate the unique 8 or 9 sounds that the Armenian language has in their letters. The IE(Aryan) roots are from the Armenian Highland, and the 8 or 9 unique sounds in Armenian is nothing similar to other IE peoples language. The Armenian language therefore is a independent language of IE and root of IE. Ararat arev 19:20, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

It is well known that the Armenian language is an independent branch of the Indo-European language family. However, could it be that the language is independent of the ethnic origins of the people? It might be imposed by someone else on the people of the Armenian highland a few thousand years ago. By "arevordi", are you talking of those Armenians who still follow the ancient Armenian religion? No, I'm Christian (Apostolic, more precisely) as indicated in my user page. Besides, that's not really popular amongst diaspora Armenians. I'm also "azkaser" or nationalist, and support the ARF. -- Davo88 19:34, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

No, azgaser I mean asgaser's site and Arevordi's site. They have sites on our history. Check my myspace page to find out what I mean. Also make sure you check out http://www.armenianhighland.com/main.html Ararat arev 19:37, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Your my space is a great page! Armenia is indeed God-chosen. It's been a long time that I've checked Armenian Highland, maybe I should review it. Cheers. -- Davo88 19:38, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Nareklm made a research page in Myspace groups. Armenian research page and I posted some topics there. Im glad you are here. I was waiting for someone finally like you to show up here. :) Ararat arev 19:41, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks :) I currently don't write in Armeniapedia, I barely even have time for wikipedia... I'll consider it, though. -- Davo88 19:57, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Sure, but I don't have that much info about it. My book simply states that they were located in southern (historic) Armenia and that they were of IE origin. It also mentions the Hittites who were of IE origin as well. Then it claims that the "Soupari" (I don't know who they are), the Hittites, Mitanni, Hayasa, Phrygians, and Mushki peoples are the constituents of the Urartian people. Then it talks about the fact that Urartu from the north subjugated Nairi from the south, and created the new and larger kingdom of Urartu, etc. etc. Anyway, do you have an idea of who the "Soupari" people are? And how are we going to relate the Mitanni people to the Armenians other than saying that they were located in Southern Armenia? Is my book enough proof to say that they were one of the constituents of our nation? -- Davo88 02:18, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

First off we have the Hurrian evidence, and second the Mitanni IE kings names are in Armenian. For example, Artatama translates to "most righteous" which the Arta is rigteous in Armenian. Tusratta is "ten chariots" Tus is ten in Armenian etc etc. Before I found out that Artak Movsisyan knew this, I had already found that out. Sanskrit was written which was Proto-IE. Since we are the roots of IE from the Armenian Highland, than this is another proof of Mitanni being Armenian. The Soupria which you mentioned is today's Sasun. Its actually Subaria or Subartu (Sumer). So its Arme-Subria or Armeni-Suberia. That area near lake Van and Nairi was in Mitanni and parts of Lake Van. Another point is the same Mitra was worshipped and continued until Tigran's time. The crown of Tigran is the same 8 ray sun symbol with 2 eagles of the Mitanni seal. This is enough proof. Armenians are native roots of IE in the Armenian Highland, and the Persians and Indians were with us in Mitanni. So all of us (Aryans) IE people were there at that time in Mitanni. So afterwards the Indo-Aryan migration took place, and Hovick Nersessian explains that the Persians seperated from us shortly after the Urartu kingdom started. So the Persians meaning the Indians also. Another last point is the Egyptians referreed to Mitanni as Nahrin or Nairi "land of 2 rivers",which Nairi is remembered to this day. Ararat arev 02:26, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

I see. So there are even some linguistic similarities. Apart from that, Mitanni was located in the heart of what is now called Kurdistan. I believe the Kurds are Indo-Europeans/Indo-Iranic also. How could we prove that the Mitanni and later kingdoms that flourished in the region such as Gordyene, Commagene, and Adiabene weren't as important to Kurds than they were to Armenians? -- Davo88 02:46, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Another thing I forgot is Hurri. Hurri is stilled used today in Armenian as Sun with wings. Thats the very symbol of the Mitanni. So here is enough proof of it. Also Hur is fire just as Jur is water :) Ararat arev 02:28, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Hovick Nersessian is also in New York Academy of Sciences. Here are some more scholars:

Jacquetta Hawkes

Jacquetta Hawkes, "The First Great Civilizations," London, 1967

"Yet the Hurrians did not disappear from history. Away to the North in their Armenian homeland, they entrenched themselves and build up the kingdom of Urartu."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacquetta_Hawkes

[edit] M. Chahin

M. Chahin, "The Kingdom of Armenia," London, 2001

"The new kingdom of Urartu, which proved to be the stronghold of the Hurrian race."

Hurrians meaning the people of Mitanni which were both from Armenian Highland Ararat arev 02:35, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

The most important point is that we have always know Ararich(Asdvadz) And the Ar = Light, Life, Sun. So for example, Arev, Ararat, Aratta, Areg, Armen, Armenia, Arka, etc etc. So Ara for examle is A"Ra", The Ra in Egyptian switched is Ar , which both means light or sun or life, life giver. Ararich meaning the Light the Creator. So we have always worshipped and known the truth. We have always known the true light the Creator the "AR"arich. We actually influenced and revealed to Egypt in 18th dynasty of Egypt which you see Akhenaten the Aten Sun worship etc etc. That is from Mitanni with the Sun (Arev) havadk yev Asdvadzee havadkn. Ararat arev 02:45, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes I was going to mention that also about Kurds. Kurds, since they are Aryaee like us also, were yet another tribe there just like Persian and Indian tribes. These tribes were all there. So since we are very few people even today even without the genocide, we are considered all very close Aryans :) And at that time we were even closer it seems. The time of Mitanni which all the Aryans were together like Kurds,Persians, and Indians Ararat arev 02:48, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

You see whats interesting about that is that Kurds have rememberence of Nairi, Khaldi from Urartu and many of those ancient names. This shows that they were together with us more near. Ararat arev 02:49, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

I gain knowledege about our history from various places, here is the Kurd history part:

"The Hurrians spread out and eventually dominated significant territories outside their Zagros-Taurus mountainous base. However, like the Kurds, they did not expand very far from the mountains. As they settled, the Hurrians divided into a number of clans and subgroups, founding city-states, kingdoms and empires with eponymous clan names. These included the Gutis, Kurti, Khaldi, Nairi, Mushku, Mannaeans (Mannai), Mitanni, Urartu, Lullubi and the Kassites among others. All these tribes were part of the larger group of Hurrians (Khurrites), and together helped to shape the Hurrian phase of Kurdish history. These groups, except the Mitanni leadership, are thought to have been non-Indo-Europeans." Ararat arev 02:58, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Look it even mentions Urartu, Khaldi you know? You see this is what it is. All these groups were part of the "larger" Hurrian group. Hurrian is actually not a seperate people but was Armenians. Armeni (Aryans), so when they say that All these tribes were part of the larger group of Hurrians (Khurrites), and together helped to shape the Hurrian phase of Kurdish history, this includes us. Ararat arev 03:04, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

OK, so according to that, we Armenians are at the very origins of the Kurdish people. You say that all the Indo-European tribes/nations were initially together in the Armenian highlands. But this is only after the Indo-Europeans arrived in the area, right? So it only refers to the ones whose descendants are today in what is now called the "Middle East"? -- Davo88 03:09, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

There are many scholars and almost all Hye scholar say IE(Aryan) homeland is the Armenian Highlands. It starts basically from after the flood and the land of Ararat where all the nations actually rebirth took place. So of course the IE homeland is Armenia. Just look at Armenia when it was Armenia the larger land and you can understand what Im saying. :) Ararat arev 03:16, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Armeni Sumerians lived in Sumer. We have always migrated. Our tribes have always migrated back and forth in the Middle east as we refer to it now. Ararat arev 03:20, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

This is the main part actually that proves about Mitanni being Armenian, and of course the other Aryan peoples like Kurds,Indians, Persians.

"These included the Gutis, Kurti, Khaldi, Nairi, Mushku, Mannaeans (Mannai), Mitanni, Urartu, Lullubi and the Kassites among others. All these tribes were part of the larger group of Hurrians (Khurrites), and together helped to shape the Hurrian phase of Kurdish history"

And where it mentioned all none-IE except Mitanni, it means "Ar"yaee people like us "Ar"menians, Persians, Indians, and Kurds to this day are referred by Aryaee. In our langauges we say Aryaee. We dont say were "Indo-Eureopean" we use the "Aryaee" word. Ararat arev 03:35, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

The Hurrians were from Armenia. They are Aryan, the language was an elite language used and just as today arevmdahye has a different slightly accent then arevelahye. So Hurrian-Aryan is the same. It was a unique way of writing. Also just as we speak more than one languag today, it was the same back then. I mean the recorded languages on the cuneiform inscriptions is not everything. Its like probably 10 or 20 % of it. The sounds that we have those 8 or 9 unique sounds are found in Hurrian and Sumerian. No other language except Chinese and Armenian have those 8 or 9 sounds. Ararat arev 03:44, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Rafael Ishkhanyan

Rafael Ishkhanyan, "Illustrated History of Armenia," Yerevan, 1989

File:Hurrian-AncientArmenian.jpg

This Hurrian cuneiform inscription translates to "I dug this watercourse" in Armenian.

Oh you might be thinking I dont know Persian or Indian or Kurd which is very similar to Persian. The Georgians too I know a little about their sounds. Persian I know the most because my parents are from Iran. Parsgahye enk. Persians only have the "Kh" and "Gh" the other 8 sounds are only in Armenian and Chinese. Hah. Intersting? :) Ararat arev 03:52, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

You see? We are the roots of IE and the roots of the land of "Ar"arat(Aratta) Ararat arev 03:53, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, yes. Sorry, I wasn't online for a moment. Perhaps all of this goes to support the Great Flood recorded in the Bible. Do you know about it? Are there any other records of such a flood in the region? -- Davo88 04:24, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

You said you looked at armenianhighland.com, yet you dont know about it. I thought you wouldve known. I also wrote about it in my myspace page did you read it? The flood story is written before the bible mentions it. The story of the flood in the bible and many other stories are taken from Armenian Highlands. The flood story is written first in Armeni Sumerian 2700 BC inscriptions. It mentions Mashu (Masis) also and mentions the same as the flood story of a righteous man etc etc. The rebirth of the nations from the land of Aratta (Ararat). The tree of life which is mentioned and the Garden of Eden stories are all from Armenian Highland inscriptions of our ancestors Armeni Sumerians etc etc. Ararat arev 04:27, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

It has really been a long time lol. I remember the previous version of the site... -- Davo88 04:32, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

If you really want to get deeper in the truth of the flood and other events. These are astronomical events that accure every 1000's of years. Its call precession of the 12 zodiac signs. Every 2000 or so years the zodiac age changes. We are reaching tha time very very near of another flood type event that will bring in the kingdom of Ararich (Arkaootoon) I told you earlier of "Ar"menia "Ar"arat the Ar = Light, Life, Sun. Hur = Ar also . This is why there are different ways of saying Ar in Semitic the Assyrians and Hebrews use "Ur" for light, where we get the city of Ur of Sumerians which is Ara, and Urartu is Ararat. Ararat arev 04:34, 10 January 2007 (UTC

Great that you note of the Semitic meaning of "ar". Ar/Er/Ayr in Arabic is the "male sexual organ", symbol of fertility. By following this logic, we can interpret the name of our nation in many ways. -- Davo88 04:44, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

This is from my own understanding of askhagidootoon yev jshdootoon:

This summer (August 11) marks the 4,500 year of Navasard (Haik's calendar). Haik (Orion) in ancient times in Armenia was the Sun of righteousness rising with healing in his wings. The 4 sides and 3 middle stars of Haik/Orion represent the 4 seasons and 3 months in each season, making the total of the 12 months. The 12 signs of the zodiac go around the same pattern 3 months, 4 seasons. Haik/Orion represents the Sun (Ar or Arev) rising with healing in his wings. Precession is shown in the lunar cycle of the 4 weeks (7's) 3 in each. The moon goes through the 12 signs, 2 half days in each sign completing the month. The 4 weeks (7's) make the ancient cross (khatch) symbol which shows the precession cycle. 3 signs of the 12 are in each of the 4 (7's)weeks. Going through the moon phases like how the swaying of precession would be from new moon, half moon, quarter moon, half again, and new again. Each 1000 years is a day so 2 half days is 2000 half years which it goes through of the 12 signs 2 half days in a month. So also the 2 meaning male and female 1000 in each. The cycle of life is like the seasons in a year. We go through darkness in winter and rise to life again at spring. The same with the Sun rising at Spring representing rebirth of life and path to eternal life. The Arev or Areg temple was first built in the land of Ararat (Aratta) Ararat arev 04:48, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Davo, let's put the Mitanni link in the article ayo? Ararat arev 04:48, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

This is very amazing, I realized on my own that Armenian and Chinese are the only languages on earth that have those 8 or 9 sounds. We cant show the example you know in English :) We are the roots and origins of the Aryans that one for sure. So Mitanni is for sure the Proto-IE (Aryan) Armenians, and those other Aryans were with us too. Ararat arev 04:51, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

You know another very strong proof is that the Armenian quarter in Jerusalem. Why in the world would there be a seperate Armenain quarter when there is a Christian quarter I asked myself. So I realized that the Armeni were already there before Abraham even stepped foot there. If you know that story of Melchizedek meeting Abraham? You see it doesnt mention much about this man, but yet it mentions later he is like the son of God? In the book of Hebrews it says that. So we are the sons of Ar (Ararich) so? Haik to consider? You knmow what I mean? Im not saying it was Haik, but it was for sure a reason we hagve the Armenian quarter there. So it shows Mitanni once again had that region whch was Armenian.(Armeni) To this day Assyrians from there Armeni inscriptions 4,500 years ago refer to us by that name. Ararat arev 05:00, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

So if you were to ask: “When did we thus learn the names of our ancestors and the deeds of many of them?” I reply: “From the ancient archives of the Chaldeans, Assyrians, and Persians, since their names and deeds were entered on the royal acts as prefects and goverrnors of our land appointed by them and as satraps.

-Movses Khorenatsi “History of Armenia”, 5th Century Nareklm 03:33, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes I saw the pictures. I'd add the warriors picture to the Military history of Armenia article if someone adds an Urartu section. So what kind of geopolitical advantage would all of this give us? It certainly strengthens our claims to Western Armenia, right? -- Davo88 04:11, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

I think it's pretty clear that Mitanni should go there. If they take it off again maybe I'll comment on the discussion page. -- Davo88 15:02, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

That's in the Old Testament, right? Where exactly? -- Davo88 22:17, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes its in Job 9:9, Job 38, Amos chapter 5. Compare the English bible with Armenian Orion is Haik in Armenian bible. Clevelander removed the Urartu warriors picture from the Military history of Armenia page, can you add it back? Add this Mitanni part also in the Military history of Armenia

"The Mitanni armies were composed of highly skilled professional troops. Their elite warriors were the maryannu, the horsemen and the charioteers of the aristocracy. The Mitanni chariots served as the models for the chariots of the neighboring armies. Mitanni chariots were sleek platforms with two wheels and a team of two horses. The horses and the maryannu warrior were well armored -- covered in bronze or iron scale armor. The attendants included archers that would fight with the noble charioteer from the chariot and the servants would attend the horses." With references Gevork Nazaryan - Kings & Dynasties; Hovick Nersessian "Highlands of Armenia," Los Angeles, 2000; Artak Movsisyan, "Sacred Highland: Armenia in the spiritual conception of the Near East," Yerevan, 2000; Martiros Kavoukjian, "The Genesis of Armenian People", Montreal, 1982. The Mitanni seal is from Martiros Kavoukjian's book, Ararat arev 04:54, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Military history of Armenia

Hi, and thanks for your excellent contribution to the Military history of Armenia article. It is much appreciated! -- Davo88 23:46, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

I added it, take a look: Template:History of Armenia. Btw someone is claiming that Armenia doesn't descend from Urartu in the talk page in Military history of Armenia. -- Davo88 00:23, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Ararat add references to the summary you added even Gevork nazaryan he does qualify or people are going to whine. Nareklm 01:28, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Yeah thats good merci. Nareklm 01:34, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Orion linked with Haik

Cite a reliable source by a well known scholar that makes that connection, that I can easily verify. Very simple.-- Ευπάτωρ ^Talk!! 23:02, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

No it's not. Saying i've read this in the Bible is original research! You need to cite someone else as saying that. I will do that for you. Look for my edit in Haik when it's unprotected, I will cite Vahan Kurkjian [1]. I will not request unprotection because of your Sumerian crap. Also let me warn you, that if you continue with the Sumerian bullshit I will file an RFC regarding your continuous pov pushing.-- Ευπάτωρ ^Talk!! 23:11, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Re:Did you see the discussions?

He didn't say that Tigranes isn't Armenian... Besides, his expansion towards the south doesn't have anything to do with Mitanni. Pontus and Armenia were allies; it was agreed that the former was to expand towards Western Anatolia and confront the Romans, while the latter was to expand south, towrds Parthian land. Oh, and if Mitanni is to be mentioned in the template, the Hittites or the "Hatt"s as we call them, should also be mentioned. Right? -- Davo88 02:28, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

In Armenian (in my book at least), the Hittites are called "Hatt"s, which is pretty close to "Hay". Anyway, I have a question unrelated to this... Do you have any info to complement what I wrote about Sasun Resistance?-- Davo88 02:56, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Before we add anything, let's agree with these guys Eupator and the others. Let's add Hittite also. I agree what you're saying Ararat arev 02:44, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

You mean info from Armenian historical sites? Like from my links here at the bottom? http://myspace.com/30451865 Ararat arev 03:02, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

You know whats interesting about Sasoon, is located in historic Mitanni. Also, I just remembered Mitanni was also known as Arme-Soupri(Armeni-Suberi) Look at one of the links Azgaser's site he explains about Sasoon in Mitanni (Armeni-Suberi) Ararat arev 03:05, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Here is the part:

"We think that much before the Achaemenians, in the times of Mitani, the name Mihr was already known to the people, particularly to those living in the regions of Mitani or Armani-Subari (and later Arme-Subria) where Sasun is located, in the form of Mitra (or perhaps even as Mher). Otherwise, it would not have been so readily accepted by the people during the Achaemenian period or later." Ararat arev 03:07, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Davo88, here is some more info about Mitanni in Kura-Araxes_culture (it mentions in the Mitanni page):

"In certain theories for locating the Urheimat (homeland) of the Proto-Indo-European language, this culture (and perhaps that of the Maykop culture) is identified with the speakers of the Anatolian languages, and even as an earlier Urheimat. Scholars Tamaz Gamkrelidze and Vyacheslav Vsevolodovich Ivanov attempt to place this Urheimat in Armenia. " Ararat arev 04:07, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Here is another one in History of Armenia:

"Another early culture in the Armenian Highland and surrounding areas—the Kura-Araxes culture—is assigned the period of ca. 4000 - 2200 BC, and is believed to have subsequently developed into the Trialeti culture (ca. 2200 - 1500 BC). Armenians are one of the oldest Indo-European subgroups.'""

This says one of the oldest, but its the oldest IE and roots. This is also how I see it, the Chinese are the roots of Japanese and Korean. Just as Armenian is roots of Persian and Indian. Chinese has all the sounds and complete language, and the Japanase and Korean took from them and simplified it. Those sounds are not all in the Japanese and Korean. Same goes with Persians and Indians. Those sounds are not found in Persian and Indian, the 8 or 9 sounds we have , and our words are very similar (we are Aryaee as we say in Armenian also like them) We are the roots of those 2 Aryan peoples just as Chinese is roots of Japanese and Korean. Ararat arev 04:13, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

3RR violation on two articles

You have been temporarily blocked for violation of the three revert rule in regard to the article Urartu. Other users in violation have also been blocked. The timing of this block is coincidental, and does not represent an endorsement of the current article revision. Please feel free to return after the block expires, but also please make an effort to discuss your changes further in the future on the article's talk page (Talk:Urartu).

You have been temporarily blocked for violation of the three revert rule in regard to the article Mitanni. Other users in violation have also been blocked. The timing of this block is coincidental, and does not represent an endorsement of the current article revision. Please feel free to return after the block expires, but also please make an effort to discuss your changes further in the future on the article's talk page (Talk:Mitanni).

Admins do not preside over the status of articles. When they are editing the encyclopedia, that means they are working as an editor. Everyone has an equal say here, and you violated 3RR on both these articles when you were warned to stop reverting. Nishkid64 22:38, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Nishki, I did discuss in the Talk:Mitanni and Talk:Urartu. Just cause I didnt respond to you about this, doesnt mean I get blocked. I responded to other admins about this, and explained about the 3RR issue. They didnt block me, yet Narek would let them know about it. Ararat arev 23:00, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Narek was actually childishly making a big deal about this, and I didnt say "kid" since you the logs and edit history. The images should go back how they were. Please check the Mitanni page. The royal seal of Mitanni (Indo-Aryan) should go back there. Ararat arev 23:03, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

You cannot violate 3rr. Ever. There is no explanation, no defense. Please take this time off from editing to read the rules. We have given you a lot of pages, but you do not seem to ever read any of them. You cannot be a helpful editor until you read the rules. That's the simple fact. Random images do not go at the top of pages. Images only exist to accentuate particular text. Thanatosimii 23:06, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Actually the 3RR can be violated in one and only one instace that's when BLP applies and you are trying to enforce it. However this clearly wasn't such a case. Bear in mind that if you claim it's a BLP case but others don't agree your likely to be blocked so it's wise to seek help rather then violating the 3RR Nil Einne 13:49, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanasimii, you just said it, put the royal seal image back to the related text. Not on the "top of the page" Put it where the related text is in the middle of the page next to the kings info Ararat arev 23:19, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Where are you? Just put it in accentuate particular text. Ararat arev 23:20, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Urartu has too many images outright, thus rendering it unhelpful. The seal I am ambivolent about, and was not removed by me. If other editors don't like Narklem's outright removal, it might be restored. However, don't make appeals to me like that expecting me to be online all the time to answer your every question. Thanatosimii 23:24, 16 January 2007 (UTC)