Talk:Claudette Colbert

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While not widely talked about, Claudette Colbert was a known bisexual to her intimates. Her affair with Marlene Dietrich is mentioned on that page and she had a long standing relationship with Verna Hull who had an adjacent house to hers in Barbados. So far only anonymous users have removed these items. It would be appreciated that before removing them again the person would identify themselves and state their reasons. I knew the persons involved. Doc 16:42, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Hi Doc. It wasn't me that removed them, however I am in favour of removing them. I appreciate that you knew the people involved and I've read of Colbert described as bisexual, so I'm not disbelieving it. The issue is Wikipedia:Verifiability. Obviously nobody is going to dispute the other things in the article about her movies and what-not, but her bisexuality is another story - if a published source could be cited that would greatly improve the situation. I'm sure you appreciate that a lot of gossip and innuendo has attached itself to various Hollywood celebrities past and present - without verification there is nothing to distinguish this from various other lies and half-truths that are scattered throughout numerous biographical articles. Rossrs 13:31, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Wish that I knew of a source other than first hand knowledge. I knew Verna Hull rather well and worked with her. I met Claudette a time or two with Verna and many intimates knew of their relationship and adjacent houses in Barbados. Neither made a show of it, but in the 1960s it was an accepted fact among their good friends. Doc 20:57, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

You might try "The Sewing Circle" by Axel Madsen but I don't know if she's in it. Though Rossrs states, "Without verification there is nothing to distinguish this from various other lies and half-truths that are scattered throughout numerous biographical articles", as far as Wikipedia is concerned, trash between the covers of a book is all that's needed. Madsen's piece of junk should do just fine, focusing as it does on Mercedes de Acosta, Garbo, Dietrich et al. As someone once said of de Acosta's book, "Here Lies the Heart," - "and lies and lies and lies." Forget the typos, the misspellings, the inaccuracies - this is what Wikipedia calls a great reference and should suit your purposes. As far as an affair with Garbo, I worked on the Garbo bio by Barry Paris and don't recall any such thing being the case. Paris is extremely thorough, with fastidious source notes, and is highly regarded as one of the best biographers ever. You probably don't see him quoted much on Wikipedia.Chandler75 01:14, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Boze Hadleigh also wrote about Colbert -- I think his work is unfairly disparaged. I've lived in Hollywood for 24 years and have met many people who confirm Hadleigh's facts from first or second-hand knowledge -- which is a lot better than most accepted history. A few people seem to require a higher standard -- almost impossible to meet -- for the bisexual/homosexual information, and they seem to be on a mission to cleanse all of it from Wikipedia.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.7.11.178 (talk • contribs) 18:50, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

When writing about people's private lives, a higher standard is required than just hearsay or interviews where there are no tapes or that have been published after a person's death when they can't deny them and can't sue. If you're going to write that some people at Wikipedia don't want to put unfounded statements in an article, you should sign your message.Chandler75 09:19, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

How does this work, a direct quote from Chapter 11 of The First Lady (a re-release of "April Ashley's Odyssey" by April Ashley by Duncan Fallowell (London: Jonathan Cape, 1982, ISBN 0-224-01849-3): "And I visited Verna Hull who often came to AD8 when she was in London. She lived next door to Claudette Colbert with whom she'd shared a house for many years. But they'd fallen out and despite living only feet apart they didn't speak at all." Also, in an article about Colbert that was published in the Spanish newspaper El Mundo in 2006 is the following information: "mantuvo una larga relación con una mujer llamada Verna Hull, su vecina en la isla caribeña de Barbados".[1] 204.126.250.112 22:04, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

After Colbert's death, her purported bisexuality was explored most deeply in a well-reviewed book about gays, lesbians, and bisexuals in Hollywood, which was written by William J. Mann. I have added it to the article, though carefully using qualifiers re her sexuality, which remains unknown, or at the very least, unproven. But since the book was well-reviewed and considered by most critics I've found on LexisNexis and ProQuest as well researched, it merits inclusion in the article.204.126.250.98 22:06, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

There is no source in the above-mentioned though a lot of sentences were being written. All are the comments on anonymity. Nevertheless, other party's real name comes out. Then, what on earth was her marriage? Were her marriages all lies? There is not explanation about it at all as above. Please put out the source if she has met even once with Garbo. It can be thought only the third-rate gossip that people who liked such story of the material in the under made up. If such a thing was written in the Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, Who testified? Or, who saw? Please write such evidence. It can be thought an extremely unfair way.--218.217.207.123 06:34, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Vanity Fair

Vanity Fair did a article on Colbert a few years back and researched the bisexual/lesbian rumor and came up with nothing proving it or no one who knew her who would confirm it so it's apparently not true. User:209.124.229.184 03:25, 2 March 2006

Not correct, don't know who Vanity Fair talked with, but not the ones in the know if that was their conclusion. Do you know the date? I'd like to read the article. As stated above I met her and knew her longest standing lover Verna Hull who was very open about their relationship in the 1970s. Doc 18:47, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Trivia section

As per Wikipedia's general attitude towards trivia (WP:Trivia) I am going to attempt to remove the section by either absorbing relevant information into the article, and removing anything that is either irrelevant to a general appreciate of Colbert's life and career, or contravenes Wikipedia:Neutral point of view. I am recording my views for each point here, as I expect disagreement. I would welcome discussion here if anyone disagrees with edits related to this section.

• Relations between her mother and grandmother were poor. Colbert was closest to her grandmother. needs citing, but maybe somewhat relevant and could easily be added into the article
• She worked as a stenographer, a salesclerk in womens' clothing, and a tutor, in order to pay her expenses at the Art Students League of New York. could easily be added into the article
• For the Love of Mike (1927) is a lost film; the print no longer exists. relevant as her film debut and could easily be added into article
• Colbert made ten films at Astoria Studios in Queens, New York. maybe relevant, could be added if the right place in the article is determined.
• She co-starred three times respectively with Herbert Marshall and Melvyn Douglas. irrelevant
• Ellie Andrews of It Happened One Night (1934) was a part refused by all other actresses in Hollywood. really? every single one? so if Marie Dressler had wanted to do it, they would have let her? Even Colbert accepted only on condition that the salary be doubled and that the picture would take only four weeks to make. significant film, interesting comment, could be added, needs source though.
• She did not attend Academy Awards at first in 1935, because she thought that Bette Davis would win the Oscar. However, she was taken to the hall by the academy staff afterwards. of minor relevance
• Her first marriage was originally kept secret; she and Norman Foster did not even live together. this point is covered in the article slightly. the comment as it stands here is irrelevant as it does not attempt to answer the most important question - why did they do this?
• Mary Pickford also was an actress who did not allow to take the photograph only from the left side as well as Claudette Colbert. irrelevant
• She got sick during production of Tovarich (1937). Therefore shooting of the film was prolonged. irrelevant. she also injured her back and missed playing in All About Eve - much more significant
• Production of Drums Along the Mohawk (1939) cost a large amount of expense. almost every film "cost a large amount", what's so special about this one? irrelevant.
• Scenes showing Colbert's face from the right show she was equally lovely from that side, but such shots are hard to find. then wait until one is found and then quote someone of repute declaring her to be lovely. Wikipedia should not be presenting this opinion, just the facts.
• Colbert had talent of business. this comment means nothing without further explanation.
• There was no romance between Colbert and men other than her husband. this is outrageous. how would anybody but Colbert know this?
• She had used the house in Palm Springs as a second home when she was living in Los Angeles. irrelevant
• She worried about becoming overweight and was careful about not overeating. most actresses had the same fear if they wanted to keep working. irrelevant.
• Claudette did not work overtime. irrelevant without further context/explanation. how is it significant?
• The idea of a villa in Barbados came to her following a visit to Noel Coward's house in Jamaica. could be mentioned in the article, though it's not particularly important it would be part of an exisiting paragraph.
• In 1963 she appeared in television commercials for Maxwell House coffee. should be put into the article
• Although in 1969, Colbert said that she intended to write a book entitled "How to Run a House" for her friend's Bennett Cerf's Random House Press, this was not to be. She never even published an autobiography. should be put in article - but needs a source
• She kept two dogs in the active times and kept a cat in later years. irrelevant Rossrs 13:41, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

I was going to get rid of most of the trivia, but since you're already on the job, more power to you. I agree with nearly all of your comments (I don't think an unwritten book merits inclusion though). Clarityfiend 05:52, 5 February 2007 (UTC)