Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pirate Cove (webcomic)

Pirate Cove (webcomic)

Pirate Cove (webcomic) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

Prod removed a long time ago, so taking this to AfD. Non notable webcomic, no claims to notability in article, no indications of notability found through a Google search (looking for Pirate Cove alone gives many false positives, looking for pirate cove plus joe d'angelo gives only 21 distinct google hits[1], only one of them from WP:RS: Wired news mentions the comic in passing when speaking shortkly with the author as an example of a webcomics creator[2]. Fails WP:NOTE. Fram 13:01, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

• Delete per nom--R613vlu 13:30, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. Edison 16:51, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Webcomics-related deletions. -- Sid 3050 22:59, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
• Weak Keep Notability is asserted due to longevity of the 'daily' comic (6 years). Notability is asserted in that it's in it's second print volume.
• Comment As is usual for Fram's webcomic AFD nominations, a deceptively low Google search value is given based on a rare search term combination. Even "pirate cove"+Angelo gives 656 hits. "Pirate Cove"+webcomic gives 3450 hits, and "Pirate Cove"+comic gives 74,600 hits, about half of which seem to be about other things. Top two hits for "pirate cove"+comic+wired give you Wired news and also (oddly enough) Buffetnews.com, which mentions it several times. At this point I'm not sure about notability of the article, but I am disappointed at Fram not having improved the AFD habits which I have criticized already. Balancer 02:20, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

As has been shown in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Parking Lot is Full, your extended searches are good for boosting the numbers, but not for retrieving more reliable sources. Why would I change my search habits when they seem to return all the hits that could possible be non-trivial mentions from reliable sources, while excluding passing mentions and irrelevant hits, mostly about unrelated things? Take e.g. your buffettnews.com: this is a fan site for a musician, not a reliable source at all. So again, it looks to me like you can't find any reliable sources beyond those I already provided, but still you feel the need to attack me. Please stop doing this and defend the comic with good sources instead. Fram 06:28, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

I've asked you numerous times to engage in more than a cursory effort to find sources before putting up an AFD, but you clearly haven't. In this case, for example, you searched for Joe D'Angelo rather than simply D'Angelo as would have been standard. As has been demonstrated in the case of The Parking Lot is Full and other AFDs, your searches are (a) inadequate and (b) do not establish a lack of notability. I cannot in good conscience vote to delete the article until an adequate argument has been offered for lack of notability, not simply "I searched using a poorly chosen combination of terms and managed to get a low hit-count." Balancer 11:47, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Addendum: As I've mentioned, I feel quite uncertain as to whether or not this webcomic will turn out to meet WP:N standards if well investigated... so don't misrepresent what I'm saying. Balancer 11:50, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

To start with your last comment: what have I misrepresented? Further: I cannot prove a negative (i.e. "establish a lack of notability"), it is up to you to show the opposite, that there indeed is some notability. As for the rest of your comments: search for "Pirate Cove" "d'Angelo" -"Joe d'Angelo" (i.e. all the links my search didn't have, but your "standard" search finds):[3] you get 31 additional distinct hits, but none of them are about the comic. Conclusion: all your "standard" search has done when compared to my "inadequate" and "cursory" one "using a poorly chosen combination of terms" is increase the raw numbers to make the return look more impressive, without even adding one single relevant hit, nevermind it being from a reliable source or being more than a passing mention. For the final time: please refrain from making these completely baseless attacks on me and my search methods: you haven't given in any of these webcomics AfD's a relevant and even slightly reliable source that was not included in my original search. Fram 14:04, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

• Delete. Not notable, not verifiable. A relatively long run has not helped it get attention from any non-trivial independent reliables, and a quick Q&A in passing at Alternative Press Expo by Wired, isn't it. ..Furthermore the previous commentator ought to cool it with getting personal as his criticsims stands some criticism themselves. —MURGH ^disc. 05:07, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
• Delete per Fram's nomination. No sign of sources or importance. Googling for the name of the comic plus the name of author is a great search when looking for nontrivial sources, since only a trivial source won't bother to at least mention the author's name. --Dragonfiend 04:39, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Such as the 600 hits Fram excludes by asking for an exact search on "Joe D'Angelo" rather than simply "D'Angelo"? I stand by my criticism that Fram has not been making sufficient effort to verify webcomic articles' notability or lack thereof before putting up AFDs, and the arguments set forth in the AFD title almost universally invoke Google hit-counts based on poorly-selected search terms in order to claim greater obscurity than is actually present. Search engine hits are not a measure of notability, after all. Balancer 11:47, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
    • Exactly, so why are you pursuing this? Googling is a means to find valid sources, and a notable article may very well get only 3 hits. Noone is misled by this. MURGH ^disc. 13:49, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
    • See my reply to Balancer's similar complaint above, and note the irony of complaining that my search gives lower numbers than his, and then saying that "Search engine hits are not a measure of notability". Let me add that even relevant search engine hits are not a measure of notability, never mind completely unrelated hits...Fram 14:04, 15 February 2007 (UTC)