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Accusations of racist tones and dog whistles in the Bored Ape Yacht Club

Would it be worthwhile to document these sorts of criticisms? Specifically the arguments outlined on this article/website:

https://gordongoner.com/

At this point in time it is the only source where I have seen these accusations, so perhaps more sources would be needed prior to writing about these criticisms in the article. Aball85 (talk) 23:39, 19 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This doesn't look like a reliable source, but there is quite a bit of criticism from reliable sources that might be able to be added. wizzito | say hello! 05:28, 18 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The accusations are also mentioned in this article which is already cited on the page. https://www.coindesk.com/layer2/2022/05/19/ryder-ripps-bored-apes-and-owning-an-nft/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:9E8:BA:C200:59EF:7558:5E86:63C0 (talk) 14:13, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

We are also not using coindesk (or other cryptozines) as an WP:RS on cryptocurrency articles. Jtbobwaysf (talk) 06:08, 14 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Prof. Steen has recently added a section on this issue, using first a WP:MEDIUM post as the source and then a YouTube video. While I adviced the user that those are not reliable sources (and have not reverted a second time due to the article's restrictions), I think it would be useful to continue this discussion and have the input of other editors on whether this video can be considered reliable and if reliable sources have covered this subject. Isabelle ^🏳‍🌈 15:06, 14 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'd contend that the video described uses lengthy editorializations, makes extremely bold accusations, raises several WP:EXTRAORDINARY red flags, and draws from things that could be considered fringe theories, but it does raise a few interesting points. If more reliable sources have covered it, it'd be important to add to the article. (Note: my personal opinion is in line with the general message being sent, and that the execution is poor.) Lucksash (talk) 00:21, 18 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This article from Reuters mentions the accusations: https://www.reuters.com/legal/litigation/artist-fires-back-bored-ape-lawsuit-with-racism-accusations-2022-08-15/

However, it’s all just repeating Ripps’s words, so not sure how useful this would be as an extra source. ASpacemanFalls (talk) 09:42, 18 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

not added by ryder

my sections on the controversy were not added by ryder the “proof” tweet is a reply to me asking him if he knows how to use wikipedia so i could get the references right. you cannot erase a controversy that is recognized by thousands of people 148.75.29.1 (talk) 16:44, 22 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

i dont understand this message, but I did respond to the controversy suggestions in the next section down here on this talk page. Jtbobwaysf (talk) 06:12, 14 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Adding “Controversy”

Controversy is no secret re. cryptocurrency and the entire NFT space. I see a controversy section was added but then removed by someone in Russia. I’m fairly new to Wikipedia but I do feel a controversy section is important. Thoughts? Is this the medium to discuss changed before actually doing them? 67.181.16.67 (talk) 17:08, 22 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, can discuss here. Controversy sections are common in wikipedia articles. The easiest way to do it is to create an account. Then put your suggested content in the the sandbox of your account, and post the link here for discussion. Please be advised we are only using mainstream sources (nyt, wsj, bloomberg, fortune, etc) for cryptocurrency articles. We are not using coindesk, theblock, any sort of blogs, WP:UGC, etc. Thanks! Jtbobwaysf (talk) 06:11, 14 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Possible free use

The current image on this article uses copyrighted images, justified by the rationale that there is no way to get a free image. However, owners of NFTs get rights to the image. Quoting from this article itself: "Owners of a Bored Ape NFT are granted access to (...) intellectual property rights for the image." Therefore, I see no reason why we can't get permission from someone who owns one of these. RteeeeKed 💬📖 20:32, 11 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I think if you are talking about wikimedia images, this is not the venue. Post your messages over at wikimedia. Jtbobwaysf (talk) 06:09, 14 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Jtbobwaysf The image is on Wikipedia, not Wikimedia. Unless I'm wrong and I should be discussing this on Wikimedia despite this. RteeeeKed 💬📖 04:37, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Normally wikimedia hosts all the images, and we just post links to wikimedia here. But any discussion about the image relating to license must go on over at wikimedia. Jtbobwaysf (talk) 06:35, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

No, I got that, this image is hosted on Wikipedia. If you click on a free to use image, it'll take you to a page on Wikimedia. However, clicking on the one on this page takes you to a page on Wikipedia. RteeeeKed 💬📖 20:26, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, out of my wheelhouse here on this. I stand corrected. I dont know what to advise. Jtbobwaysf (talk) 10:18, 18 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Recent edit

Hi Guydebordgame, the citation that you supplied [1] for this edit [2] does not say what you have inferred and stated it does, and therefore your edit is a WP:BLP violation. Your citation states that Aronow's early-teens addictions ended when he was 15, and that his MFA aspirations followed by his severe illness began in his early 20s, and that his cryptocurrency trading began at some point in his 20s. Therefore, the text you added to the Wikipedia article is false and a serious WP:BLP violation. Please revert it. 64.64.172.66 (talk) 04:19, 18 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I've removed the mention to crack addiction since it made no sense in that section. I can also see the BLP vio angle. Isabelle ^🏳‍🌈 13:02, 18 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Why do you feel that? It provides important background on the founders past and is an interesting detail that he provided in an interview. Do you not like it because it paints the founder in a negative light? I find it very beautiful that he has overcome these obstacles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Guydebordgame (talk • contribs) 09:44, 21 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Guydebordgame: The way it was written it gave the impression the subject had become an addict recently, after the creation of company. I'm still not convinced by the rewriting, which is more in line with the source, but feels completely unnecessary, specially since we are dealing with a BLP. I also think your sentence concerning the ADL needs rewriting. Isabelle ^🏳‍🌈 20:04, 21 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Isabelle: is there any particular reason you don't like these details? The founder himself thought it was important to note in an interview. It seems you are just against any edit thats in a negative light. Instead of clearing these edits how about you suggest a rewrite. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Guydebordgame (talk • contribs) 22:27, 21 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Guydebordgame, you need to get WP:CONSENSUS for your edits before reverting or replacing the content elsewhere in the article. See the information on WP:CONSENSUS and on WP:BRD. Also please read WP:UNDUE. 64.64.172.66 (talk) 02:38, 22 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

its extremely obvious that your edits are simply clearing facts that you find put BAYC in a negative light. You have made no other contributions. Guydebordgame (talk) 04:47, 22 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

why is that? I would argue you do, you are the one blanking, I am adding, expanding and improving this article, it seems like you are simply editing inconvenient facts. Please get WP:CONSENSUS before editing any of my edits. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Guydebordgame (talk • contribs) 04:39, 22 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Guydebordgame: I've removed mention of the subject's addiction because it seemed undue for this article. On that note, I'd like to say that just because something is verifiable it doesn't mean it needs to be added to the article. Speaking of the ADL note, it was my bad not to suggest a rewrite. I think that it merits addition, but it should likely attribute it to the two researchers mentioned in the interview, in my opinion. Isabelle ^{🏴‍☠️} 10:14, 22 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, understood, thank you for clarifying, looking forward to your rewrite. Guydebordgame (talk) 21:24, 22 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Guydebordgame: Apologies for the delay. As I suggested above, the section about the ADL should be attributed to the two researchers, in my view, something like: Mark Pitcavage and Carla Hill, two senior researchers for the Anti-Defamation League, commented in an interview to Input Magazine that some of the traits displayed by the apes are "problematic". These included things such as the "sushi chef headband" and the "gold chain and gold teeth". While the section about the addiction should not be re-added. Isabelle ^🏳‍🌈 13:58, 24 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The Disney edit

Regarding the "many compare it to Disney" edit, Guydebordgame. The sourced articles are either from people directly involved with the NFT market/the company itself and only quote a handful of people. That does not constitute "many" and the bit about "the epitome of cool" is completely subjective and, again, not something that "many" say. I'd argue this information isn't relevant to the article at all and, at most, might be slotted into the 'Reception' section with very careful wording to avoid misrepresenting reality, which is that a few people with a vested interest in the company's success have talked it up. In fact, looking at it from that perspective, it might not be a good addition period. It's prone to bias, heavily so. ASpacemanFalls (talk) 08:45, 1 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with ASpacemanFalls' point here, and was about to revert it myself. The cited articles are clearly mentioning the selling point of the NFT people, which are clearly biased towards its success. CNET, for instance, says: If crypto firms want to become the next JPMorgan, NFT brands want to be the next Harry Potter or Disney. That's the idea. I don't think that information merits addition in this article. Isabelle ^🏳‍🌈 12:34, 1 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

ASpacemanFalls Isabelle I hear you, but regardless I think the general public probably needs to understand why these NFTs are worth so much, and how this company just over a year old is worth $5b, so bringing it into context about how they are viewed as the next Disney, a massive company, helps make sense of that no?

Revision as of 12:34, 1 October 2022 edit Isabelle Belato (talk \| contribs) Autopatrolled, Administrators 48,672 edits →The Disney edit ← Previous edit		Revision as of 16:21, 1 October 2022 edit undo Guydebordgame (talk \| contribs) 222 edits →The Disney edit Next edit →
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	:I agree with [[User:ASpacemanFalls\|ASpacemanFalls]]' point here, and was about to revert it myself. The cited articles are clearly mentioning the selling point of the NFT people, which are clearly biased towards its success. CNET, for instance, says: {{tpq\|If crypto firms want to become the next JPMorgan, NFT brands want to be the next Harry Potter or Disney. That's the idea.}} I don't think that information merits addition in this article. [[User:Isabelle Belato\|Isabelle]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Isabelle Belato\|🏳‍🌈]]</sup></small> 12:34, 1 October 2022 (UTC)		:I agree with [[User:ASpacemanFalls\|ASpacemanFalls]]' point here, and was about to revert it myself. The cited articles are clearly mentioning the selling point of the NFT people, which are clearly biased towards its success. CNET, for instance, says: {{tpq\|If crypto firms want to become the next JPMorgan, NFT brands want to be the next Harry Potter or Disney. That's the idea.}} I don't think that information merits addition in this article. [[User:Isabelle Belato\|Isabelle]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Isabelle Belato\|🏳‍🌈]]</sup></small> 12:34, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

			:[[User:ASpacemanFalls\|ASpacemanFalls]] [[User:Isabelle Belato\|Isabelle]] I hear you, but regardless I think the general public probably needs to understand why these NFTs are worth so much, and how this company just over a year old is worth $5b, so bringing it into context about how they are viewed as the next Disney, a massive company, helps make sense of that no?