User talk:2601:45:501:1AF0:F84B:12C4:5481:83B1

December 2023

Hello, I'm Framawiki. Wikipedia is written by people who have a wide diversity of opinions, but we try hard to make sure articles have a neutral point of view. Your recent edit to Brooke Medicine Eagle seemed less than neutral to me, so I removed it for now. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you. Thanks, Framawiki (please notify me when you reply) 21:19, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

Hi There, framawiki.

We have not met, I am Laureen Keefer, aka BlissEffect. I am a teacher, a healer and a student and friend of Brooke Medicine Eagle who has attended one weekend workshop she taught and another 6 week long online course she offered. I have read both of her books and own her album A Gift of Song (twice, the cassette tape I bought at her workshop was played so often in broke so I bought it again digitally this time). I have been using the Internet since 1986 when I got my first email account, back when the World Wide Web was only a secret tool of physicists, used in text only via telnet. I have been a user and supporter of WIKIpedia for decades and I am editing from Wilmington, Delaware, USA. So, who are you really and where are you from? What are your interests? Are you a real person or an AI bot of some kind? LOL :0)

I only ask that because I am honestly curious how you happened to become aware of my edit of Brooke Medicine Eagles biography so quickly? I read your page where it says "I am patrolling recent changes across all Wikipedia in real time, both in French and in English. Due to the volume of edits to watch, I only have a second to see if it's a good edit or not. Even if I try to be pretty sure before reverting, mistakes can happen. If I'm wrong, please accept my apologies and send me a message.”

It was pretty clear that when i received the note that you reverted my edit back to what was there before just seconds after I posted it, that you certainly did not have time to read the new biography i added, nor to read the one that was there before. If you had taken 2 minutes instead of 1 second you may have realized what was there before was not a biography at all, it was pure negativity, not neutral in any way.

I am not the first person to point this problem out on the talk page for Brooke Medicine Eagle’s entry. I wrote that i wanted to make a change to remove the previous biography and replace it with a true biography back on 11 June 2021 - no one responded that I should not or could not go ahead and correct this glaring error. What was previously written under the biography section of Brooke Medicine Eagles page is not a biography at all but just a few totally random, slanderous, negative, non-neutral, totally false statements that had no basis in fact whatsoever.

I am not sure what harm comes from putting a true biography online in place of what truly harmful garbage was there before.

I do believe the idea of having a neutral point of view is ok to prevent negativity - but when a person like Brooke Medicine Eagle is literally one of the kindest, wisest, most loving spiritual teachers on the entire planet, she deserves to have her actual biography on her wikipedia page, not some totally contrived negative personal attack that has literally ZERO basis in fact.

This is why I posted her actual biography. It should not be deleted for simply being factually positive. I do not believe that wikipedia is trying to eliminate POSITIVE factual statements, but NEGATIVE ones, such as those that I know I appropriately deleted and replaced.

Please read the actual books by Brooke Medicine Eagle, the Last Ghost Dance and White Buffalo Woman Comes Singing or attend a workshop she offers to know her as a person before you erase her true biography. Take some time to listen to her music, including the awesome album A Gift of Song.

ln the meantime, help me out. What do I need to do to make the proper true biography appear on wikipedia? And now that I think about it, what exactly makes you qualified to be “patrolling” wikipedia in this way and removing true biographies of real people with only a split second decision, in favor of keeping lies that some negative haters who obviously do not know this kind woman personally posted just to gaslight her…?

I intend to re-replace that hateful libelous biography again with the true one, so please enlighten me with what is wrong with posting a positive TRUE biography about a TRULY POSITIVE PERSON. Should i delete a few adjectives? haha….seriously though.. instead of just deleting what i posted and reverting to the horrible lies that were there before, please just tell me what specific changes I can make to the real ACTUAL TRUE biography of this real actual living person to avoid having you remove it and threaten to block my account.

Thanks so much, and have a NICE day!

Laureen

aka BlissEffect Blisseffect (talk) 22:07, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

ps oops i am sorry i didnt realize i wasnt logged in before i edited brooke medicine eagle’s biography... Blisseffect (talk) 22:21, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

Hello. Thanks for your offer to send me a copy of the actual books by Brooke Medicine Eagle, the Last Ghost Dance and White Buffalo Woman Comes Singing, and of course the awesome album A Gift of Song. I currently live in Réunion, and can give you my address. I'm just afraid that the shipping costs are a little high, so thanks in advance!

More seriously, thanks for this long reply. Did you read Wikipedia:Neutral point of view page mentioned in my message? If not, it may be a good starting point. Please start by adding content (instead of removing existing stuff written by others), one by one, taking time to add appropriate citations (see Help:Referencing for beginners).

Also, please note that, after my revert, an administrator has hidden your edit with the reason « WP:RD1: Violations of copyright policy: https://www.medicineeagle.com/meet-brooke » Perhaps you're unaware of copyright laws that forbid to copy content, and here on wikipedia there is a special process to follow if you're the original author, see in this case Wikipedia:Requesting_copyright_permission. Thanks, Framawiki (please notify me when you reply) 19:35, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

haha, thats funny! i was actually suggesting you could purchase your own copies, since they are very well written books, and anyone with a general interest in life on planet earth would enjoy reading them. They are also available as e-books so no shipping required...you also can download any of her songs for .99 or the whole album digitally for less than $10…you dont have to do this but it would help you understand that Brooke Medicine Eagle is a successful and globally recognized author and teacher, not just a random person no one has heard about.

I am afraid I do not agree with your statement that I cannot, with Brooke Medicine Eagle’s direct personal approval, remove something from her biography that is very clearly NOT Neutral and is also 100% false. However I also understand that you don’t know her personally as I do, so how can we get around this question of semantics. Does not the person of whom the Biography is about have the right to determine what is posted there, and to have a friend post for him or her, the exact text of her biography? If it is simply a matter that you feel it would be better to write a new version of the biography rather than use her existing one from her website, we can take the time to do that certainly. I have been working directly with Brooke since 2 and half years ago to get this issue corrected. it just does not seem fair to assume that the current highly libelous and false statements that are not biographical in any way need to stay there just because they somehow got there first.

Regarding the copyright issue, I do understand the concerns in hindsight, however I had Brooke’s personal permission to replace that slander someone posted under the Biograpy heading on her wikipedia page with her current actual biography from her website.

How do i make a note that I am posting the Biography as written by Brooke Medicine Eagle herself, with her permission? I am not familiar with how wikipedia would indicate something like that to make it clear that I was not just “stealing” her biography and posting it without her permission or awareness….oops! I can totally see how it may have looked that way!

I am not shy to admit that I am totally new to the editting wikipedia process so i am realizing I need to ask how to note that I am posting Brooke’s personal biography for her with her permission, and figure out how we can together edit it to make it fit the more neutral academic encyclopedia entry tone that would pass muster at wikipedia.

Before I made the changes I did I assure you that I did read the Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons page and was also inspired to do what I did for Brooke by the following notice that popped up when I first started to edit the page:

Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard. If you are connected to one of the subjects of this article and need help, see this page.

Because the current material written on her page REALLY IS contentions, libellous, false and SOO negative, it does not make any sense to keep it there. Not only are the statements not neutral they are NOT TRUE. Those falsehoods unfairly seek to tarnish the reputation of a person who does not in anyway deserve to be targeted in that way. I know in my heart it is 100% reasonable to completely remove those statements, based on the above explanation I read of the specific policy about biographies of living persons. and the sections on Balance and Attack Pages (I marked in Bold the sentences that made me think I was correct to delete and replace the text:

Balance

Shortcut

• WP:BLPBALANCE

Further information: Wikipedia:Coatrack articles

Criticism and praise should be included if they can be sourced to reliable secondary sources, so long as the material is presented responsibly, conservatively, and in a disinterested tone. Do not give disproportionate space to particular viewpoints; the views of small minorities should not be included at all. Care must be taken with article structure to ensure the overall presentation and section headings are broadly neutral. Beware of claims that rely on guilt by association, and biased, malicious or overly promotional content.

The idea expressed in Eventualism—that every Wikipedia article is a work in progress, and that it is therefore okay for an article to be temporarily unbalanced because it will eventually be brought into shape—does not apply to biographies. Given their potential impact on biography subjects' lives, biographies must be fair to their subjects at all times.

The current text on Brooke’s page is a minority viewpoint given by individuals who seen to have made a quick superficial judgement based on little actual time spent to really understand the truth about Brooke, her heritage, her teaching/healing role on the planet, and actual facts about who she is, what she does. It is clear these negative personal attacks should be removed, based on wikipedia’s own policies:

Attack pages

Further information: Wikipedia:Attack pages and Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion § G10

Pages that are unsourced and negative in tone, especially when they appear to have been created primarily to disparage the subject, should be deleted at once if there is no policy-compliant version to revert to; see § Summary deletion, creation prevention, and courtesy blanking, below. Non-administrators should tag them with {{db-attack}} or {{db-negublp}}. Creation of such pages, especially when repeated or in bad faith, is grounds for immediate blocking.

I struggled with these conflicting bits of advice over 2 years ago when I posted a request for help and advice about changing this page for Brooke here: (Talk:Brooke Medicine Eagle under the subject: I am concerned about the negative bias on Brooke Medicine Eagle's page, but since I never received any feedback I went ahead and tried to help do what Brooke herself asked me to do to make sure only true and correct infomation appears on her wikipedia Biography.

Sorry this message got so long again I am thinking these things through as I type and am looking forward to your reply. In the meantime I will connect with Brooke about creating a new version of her biography that will fit the wikipedia neutrality ideal more closely. Thanks for understanding, this is an important change to make and I hope we can resolve this to get the page corrected quickly. Thank you for any more specific advice you can provide. …Laureen aka BlissEffect Blisseffect (talk) 22:30, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

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