Talk:Harvey Bialy

The subject of this article, Harvey Bialy, has edited Wikipedia as 189.138.108.211 (talk · contribs) and 189.138.96.136 (talk · contribs).

Fact Checking

I'm trying to verify some of the information listed in this article. In the article it says that Dr. Bialy is a visiting scholar in the IBT in Cuernavaca, however I extensively searched the IBT website, and could not find any listing of him among the personel or anywhere. A google search of the site revealed only 3 links, 2 of which was a listing of an editorial which he co-wrote with IBT investigator Roberto Stock and another was a hidden link to a page selling a CD-ROM by Dr. Bialy. The page for the Virtual Library of Biothechnology...etc does not list him as director either. So I'm assuming that Dr. Bialy has moved on to something else, unless someone can confirm this I will change the article to reflect this. The article also mentioned he is the author of numerous research articles in peer-reviewed journals, but a PubMed search only finds a bunch of editorials and then only 6 original research articles in which he is listed as an author, the last one being from 1986. Nrets 13:58, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Nrets: THE SECTIONS RELEVANT TO YOUR REMARKS - AS COPIED BELOW - ARE ACCURATE. BIALY 20 MAY 2006 (If you have any other "facts" about me that you would like "to check", you can email me at my public, Institute address bialy@ibt.unam.mx)

Bialy is a resident scholar of the Institute of Biotechnology (IBT) of the National Autonomous University of Mexico (UNAM) in Cuernavaca, a position he has held since 1996, and acts as director of the Virtual Library of Biotechnology for the Americas.

He is the founding scientific editor of Nature Biotechnology (part of the Nature family of publications), and edited its peer-reviewed content from 1983-1996. He has authored significant papers in molecular genetics -- among them being the first to show that phage genes can subvert host functions (Virology, 46:387, Proc. Nat. Acad. Sci. USA, 66:587), and editorials and commentaries on contemporary issues in biotechnology in Nature Biotechnology and other leading journals

There is no mention of this on the IBT website, nor in the VLBA. Could you please provide an external source to confirm this? The IP address that edited this originates from Uruguay, not the UNAM, so I don't even believe you are actually Harvey Bialy. Nrets 14:37, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

NRETS / It doesn't matter what you *believe*. You have been given several ways to discover if I am who I write I am, and if the information is accurate as it is now REEDITED. Your sole recourse to web resources speaks volumes in folio about *you*. I would also ask you to please refrain from line editing anything else. The change you made does *not* come under any heading of *fact correction* as the dates of the papers speak for themselves. It is clear you are making pathetic reaches at attempts to discredit someone you revile for speaking the truth. Cease, por favor. Bialy@IBT.UNAM.MX 22 May 06

The email I sent to the address provided was returned as undeliverable. So no, I do not think you are Harvey Bialy, and not I do not think he is part of the IBT, there is no mention of him in the IBT directory nor ANY secondary source other than an outdated CV in the bialystocker website. The VLBA page lists Zaida Penton and Shirley Ainsworth as directors. For whatever reason, whoever you are, you seem bent on promoting this guy but not providing any accurate source. Nrets 15:43, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

If only you were so insisting of evidence with regard to HIV... 64.185.56.232 21:23, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Nrets: As I wrote, what *you* believe (or "think") is not relevant. Please resend your email as there is no way it was returned to you if properly addressed. bialy@IBT.UNAM.MX. I know perfectly well what it says or doesn't about me on the various pages of the institute's website. Since you are so savvy why don't you email the director of the IBT with your question? And as long as we are re-revisiting this tired point, my dear cybernetically informed and otherwise cerebrally challenged "Nrets (whoever *you* are), the homepage of the Virtual Library simply gives Penton and Ainsworth's names. It says nothing of their functions. Your deductive reasoning is a shining example of that of the entire church of HIV/AIDS. Bialy 22.05.06

I add a PS Mr. Nrets. Don't you find it even a little odd that *nobody* from the IBT or UNAM had seen fit "to correct" my affiliation? Surely with all the people who have seen it (and its "spiffier" version at the AIDS Wiki) something as glaring and *significant* as this would have been brought to the attention of someone in authority. Did *you* never "think" to do this before heading way out to sea in a very leaky rowboat? But then you are "protected" by internet anonymity so reckless and ignorant behavior is facilitated.

You can spew all the insults you want, the fact is is that you are not listed as a member of the IBT and that's that, and maybe IBT or UNAM does not care enough to correct a self-promoting WP page. Finally, Ainsworth 'is' listed as being in charge of the VLBA [1] Nrets 17:47, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

User Nrets. Be that as it might (and things on the internet change often in the blink of an eye), the only facts that are relevant to my biography are that I *am*, and have been since 1996, a resident scholar at the IBT and serve as *the director* of the Virtual Library. I also find it as far-fetched as the hypothesis you so fervently beleive in that had anyone altered either the UNAM or the IBT that an infamous "HIV denialist" was pretending to be a resident scholar at the most prestigious biotechnolgy institute in Latin America on a very well visited Wikipedia, they would not have been interested. Bialy, 22 de Mayo, Cuernavaca

NRETS -- a single phone call or email to a real live, human being who has access to the information would verify or refute the claim immediately. It would be a trivial task in the course of work for a journalist. Surely, it's not too much effort for "you". And Nrets, it's quite comical to see you write things like, "no, I do not think you're Bialy"... hee-hee 64.185.56.232 21:30, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

I've sent an email to the Personnel office at the IBT, which will settle this once and for all. I'm basically trying to confirm everything in the article, and all I get is a barrage from insults from both User:Revolver and someone who is allegedly Harvey Bialy. I will not let your bullying tactics keep me away. Nrets 21:48, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

You get a barrage of insults from me and Dr.Bialy because you go and remove things before actually trying to verify whether they're true or not, things we KNOW are true. Besides, your subtle little POV changes "a handful of papers" and so on. And how you think the internet, google, and PubMed are the ultimate sources of journalistic verification is beyond comprehension. 64.185.56.232 22:01, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Let's be frank, Nrets. You're picking on this article because it prominently displays a "denialist" with tons of street cred. The usual policy at Wikipedia for a while has been, when confronted with "unverified" info, to leave "citation" tags, and if necessary, a template indicating that the article needs citations and references to validate information. You don't just go in and start rewriting stuff because you "think" it's not true. 64.185.56.232 22:09, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

And I would think that *assuming* previous editors have knowingly contributed false info and even questioning the identity of a contributor is hardly Wikipedia good faith. 64.185.56.232 22:13, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Why don't you go pick on Alfred_Mirsky?? It hasn't got a single referenced fact on it. 64.185.56.232 22:29, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm not assuming false info was knowingly added. I am suggesting the article is out of date, and incredibly POV'd. I could go on and on as to why this article is POV, but I think you get my point from my edits. Also note that I have not, at any time personally insulted anyone unlike you and Dr. Bialy, who seem to be quick with the insults but slow with actual responses. Finally, I did not change the article until I posted my concerns in this talk page first, for several days, which went unresponded. Nrets 00:17, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

I'll wait for an official reply, but again, Dr. Bialy seems to be listed as an "ex-collaborator and/or ex-student" at the IBC, see here [2]. Nrets 01:12, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

CLOSURE AND AN OBJECT LESSON:

It is unwise to base conclusions on very partial data that are subject to many interpretations and not necessarily reproducible -- something the AIDS establishment has done for 25 years and spent 50 billion dollars doing to the same futile ends as the insistent and insolent interference with my Wiki page by Nrets. To understand exactly what I am saying, please click on the link this anonymous defender of the faith brazenly claims to reveal me as "either an ex-collaborator and/or ex-student". Bialy 26 de Mayo 2006, Cuernavaca

Is Bialy still affiliated with UNAM?? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.108.115.49 (talk • contribs) .

Yes, according to their website. Trezatium 20:16, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Comments from Bialy

First, I had absolutely nothing to do with the creation of my Wikpedia page, and until a few days ago, when I learned that an internet character identified only as “Nrets” had been willy-nilly altering my hard earned professional accomplishments, almost nothing to do with its content. After learning of this interference, I re-edited the page, and in the “Discussion” section of the Wiki left what should have been sufficient data to satisfy whatever the burning desires for accuracy were that drove him to his mistaken “correction”. Alas, it was not to be, and by the time *you* read this, I have no idea whether the entry will be accurate as it is *now*, or whether Nrets or someone else will have altered it once again.

As has been noted in many venues, this free for all editing of Wikis can be problematic. In the case of relatively non-controversial pages, web-selection appears to work, and quite well. However, when the entry involves an exceedingly (although I have no idea why) controversial issue such as the HIV/AIDS hypothesis and its critics, such malfeasance is not only to be expected, but it appears unavoidable.

Por ejemplo, someone might write "Bialy received his Nobel in Literature in the same year Duesberg was awarded his in Medicine. But as they were both rainbow bodies by then, they declined to be present in Stockholm or even send video of their acceptance speeches."

Because of this, someone had the idea to create an [3] AIDS Wiki that would be impeccably moderated. I suggest that anyone who wishes up to date and accurate information about the critics and the critique of what Kary Mullis (Nobel Laureate in Chemistry 1993, and inventor of PCR) called “the worst hypothesis in the history of medical science”, visit it before taking any other action. Harvey Bialy, Cuernavaca, 22 de Mayo 2006 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.185.56.232 (talk • contribs) .

The above comments were orignally cut from Bialy's website and pasted into the article; 64.185.56.232 then cut them from the article and pasted them here. Trezatium 12:07, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Insertion of "debate with Nick Bennett" as an external link

The insertion of the "debate with Nick Bennett" is inappropriate. First of all, it was not a debate with NB at all. Secondly, Bialy has had a lot of internet discussions such as this, and none of them are listed here. There were many other participants in this reference, and so the forum was hardly particular to Bialy at all. As such it has been removed two times now.

If whoever keeps adding this ref insists it belongs here, we can add the "mother of all bllog books", which is more useful to the casual reader as it was compiled, edited, and introduced by a professional editor, poet and philosopher, Dr. Charles Stein, from eleven days of continuous (24/7) 'discussion' at Dean's World. It can be found at Bialy's page on the AIDS WIKI. 198.175.175.114 18:29, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

The discussion specifically relates to a short article written by Harvey Bialy called "Falsifying the AIDS Hypothesis" (at the very top of the thread), so it is not just a random internet discussion among many. The edited version referred to here has been edited to present Bialy in the best light possible and truncates the discussion, eliminating several of Nick Bennett's posts. The online link is therefore more complete, and relates specifically to an article written by Bialy that is central to his claims about HIV.

• • • The link has once more been removed. This is not Dr. Bennett's page and if he wishes to call attention to this enormously long blogathon that includes himself (to no obvious advantage btw)he should properly do it on his own site. As pointed out above, all the many blog discussions that Bialy has conducted are linked on his AIDS WIKI page. (11.08.06,6:33 pm est)

• • • For anyone who could possibly be interested in this apparently childish back and forth about a "web book". The readable and impecably edited version has been available as a link on the home page of my website for well over a year, and as pointed out above has been downloaded almost 10,000 times. So I do believe Dr. Bennett has received about as much attention, admiration, disdain and derision as he is likely to get. The relevant portion of the homepage of "bialy/s" reads:

"There are 4 kinds of things to be found in the White Cyber-City :: visual, musical, poetic and discursive. i parse the visual obras displayed in the main gallery as: ::Asiderial:: configurations, constructions, contemplations, conformations, considerations, conjunctions or conjurations depending on the day of the week on Jupiter.

They were all created using Photoshop 7.0, and the procedures used to transform the original digital record of some objective event were derived by application of the fundamental principles of the Alphabetic Calculus for Cosmic Idiots, so delightfully elaborated by my dear friend Eccles in a surprising forum." "Surprising forum" is hyperlinked to http://www.deanesmay.com/files/ThinkingTheUnthinkable.pdf.

Bialy, Cuernavaca, 11.08.06 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 201.138.23.250 (talk • contribs) .

Poetry, etc

I see the categorization of Bialy in Category:Poets was readded. Bialy is not exceptionally noted as a poet. He is noted as a scientist and AIDS dissident. For Wikipedia purposes, that should be the focus of the article. It's fine to leave the description and link in the article, but he should be removed from Category:Poets; he is not notable enough as a poet for inclusion in Wikipedia. MastCell 00:03, 15 September 2006 (UTC) (This comment was deleted by User:189.138.108.211 and subsequently restored.)

Yes I removed this comment previously (causing me to get a yellow card!). I would appreciate it very much, even though I am a hated dissident, ift the yellow ribbon (card) could be removed from the main page and that these useless comments also be removed. I thank the oh so vigilant moderators for their amazing attentions to this my wee page even though I am only a very minor poet (sigh). Gracias. Bialy, Cuernavaca, 16.09.06 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 189.138.108.211 (talk • contribs) .

UTC: Thank you for taking away my yellow card. You will of course have noticed that I have made two slight alterations to the article page that I believe are in accord with your views above when you wrote "It's fine to leave the description and link in the article", but that I am "not notable enough as a poet for inclusion in Wikipedia". I hope that we are done with adjustments to my page for a few more months. BTW here are "sources" for the uncited items that you marked. Each can be verified by contacting the librarian of the Virtual Library at the IBT. They are not the sorts of items that have otherwise available sources of verification. Take my word, or ask the IBT/UNAM. Bialy, Cuernavca, 16.09.06 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 189.138.108.211 (talk • contribs) .

UNAM website

I can no longer find any reference to Bialy on the UNAM website, he has been removed from the list of investigators and his page - linked to in the Wikipedia entry - is now blank. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.108.115.49 (talk • contribs).

I've tagged the relevant reference - perhaps someone can provide info on why the page is blank, or will look into it soon. MastCell 20:55, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Reasons for leaving UNAM

I've reverted the recent edit by Iago4466 (talk · contribs), because it is unsourced. As potentially harmful information, Wikipedia's policy on biographies of living people demands that we have a verifiable, reliable source for such information. Iago4466, if you can provide such a source, the material can be reinstated. Thanks. MastCell 04:02, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Policy

The implication that Bialy was hurriedly "disassociated" from UNAM needs a [[WP:RS|reliable source. Until there's a source, it can't go in, per WP:BLP. Also, per WP:EL, one external link to the dissident AIDS wiki is sufficient (in fact, it probably falls under "Links to be avoided" entirely). With reference to Bialy's book, an ISBN link is appropriate, but a link to a commerical bookseller (Barnes/Noble) is not. External links to blogs are generally to be avoided. Hence the edits. MastCell 18:00, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Once again, wikipedia trolls demonstrate inability to correctly read English

MASTCELL --

"This page uses content from the AIDS Wiki article Harvey_Bialy, captured on 16 March 2006. AIDS Wiki is licensed under the GFDL.

WHAT PART OF THIS DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND?? It is clearly giving credit to material originally released under GFDL at the AIDS Wiki. (The date says 16 March, but it actually goes back to January or February... the point is, the material ORIGINALLY appeared at the AIDS Wiki.) THIS IS NOT A MATTER OF WHETHER THE WIKI IS "NOTABLE ENOUGH" OR WHATEVER. IT IS A MATTER OF YOU VIOLATING GFDL IF YOU REMOVE THIS CREDIT ONCE MORE.

Really.

68.35.72.13 09:19, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Hello, User:Revolver. Perhaps you could explain which part, exactly, of the current Wikipedia article uses text taken from the AIDSWiki? So far as I can tell by looking at the edit histories side-by-side, most of the AIDSWiki article was actually captured from Wikipedia rather than vice-versa. I've not been able to identify any significant content that was added from AIDSWiki to this article - could you specify? Otherwise it looks like you're spamming a "credit" template for a wiki which you happen to run, when in fact the flow of text has been in the opposite direction. MastCell ^Talk 20:37, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Mastcell: I am more than perplexed to discover that material which has been on my page since the first entry was made by Dean Esmay, I believe, back in 2005 is now suddenly in need of sourcing. Each of the items currently marked as requiring such has been on my professional resumes for a long time and never has anyone presumed to ask me to authenticate any of them. Further each is a matter of public record and none of them are the sorts of items that can be cited in the way a book or publication can. For example, you ask for a citation to the fact that I graduated first in my class from Bard College in 1966. Well I would have thought that I would hardly be on a list of notable Bard alumni if that were not true. Similarly for the other items you now threaten to remove. How could it NOT be true that I received the grants that are indicated, or am a member of Pres. Mbeki's panel? Is the presumption that such material, cobbled from online resumes, could be false? I do not believe that any such excessive and silly scrutinies are applied to the members of the AIDS establishment who are represented on the Wiki pages. Further, the article has also been deemed neutral enough to have been fundamentally untouched for years. The recent intrustion of Prof. John Moore posing as "Truthseekernyc", and adding inaccurate and libelous material, has it appears caused you to undertake these radically revised stances towards my modest representation. Harvey Bialy, Cuernavaca, 6 April 2007.

Indeed. Compare to Alfred Mirsky. Both articles were created about the same time, both are entries on prominent molecular biologists, and both have roughly the same format and style. Yet the article on Mirsky

1. Does not have a statement saying it "reads like a resume".
2. Does not have a statement saying it has numerous "unsourced statements", although it has very similar unsourced statements as those which appear in Harvey's entry.
3. Does not have numerous "citation needed" tags placed throughout it, although it has NOT A SINGLE REFERENCE OR CITATION TO ANYTHING IN IT.

What's the difference here? I don't see any. Is this really all just about following Wikipedia procedures and blah-blah, and not using any and every opportunity to game the system to scrutinize and harass dissidents and suppress their viewpoint as much as possible. If you are really acting on the former motivation, MastCell, you should do everything possible to "go and clean up" the article on Mirsky. Your user history (e.g. the time you've spent along with Trezatium and others to make the AIDS dissident article almost completely orthodox POV and a total joke) suggests the latter, however. 68.35.72.13 13:21, 6 April 2007 (UTC)