Talk:Stormtroopers (Imperial Germany)

German "Sturm" means "storm" or "tempest" but also "assault"

That last sentence seems a little non-objective...

General Hutier was too cautious in using his troops and if he had spent less time consolidating his gains he could have broken far enough through the Allied line to win the war.

There's no proof that that would have won the war, so i've removed it. If anyone wants to put it back on then get a ref Ultre 17:32, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Merge

I think this article and Shock troops should be merged either under the name of the former or under Assualt troops which is the proper translation of the German name stosstruppen. Nik Sage • Talk Nik Sage 16:28, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

I think the merge should be the other war around. Stormtrooper should be merged into "shock troops" initally with a redirect to that name and with a section in the merged article called Stormtrooper. Once done then we can discuss if the combined article should be moved to "Assualt troops". There are other articles around like fireteam which have to be considered if the article is moved to "assualt troops" so better one thing at a time.

However there is a complication with this. If is article is merged into "shock troops" then the disambiguation page Stormtrooper (disambiguation) should be moved here because the term also has other meanings as the disambiguation page makes clear. If this is not done then there will be edit wars over which page the redirect should link to (Imperial stormtrooper or Sturmmann). I suggest that a new redirect is created of Stormtrooper (World War I) and all the current links to this page are edited to use that redirect. This should be done before any merge, as this will reduce disambiguation problems which can occure during such processes. --Philip Baird Shearer 09:32, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Hi Phlip. Sorry for the delayed response, but I was busy for the last few days. There is a problem with the merge. Shock troops were used before von Hutier. For example, cavalry troops armed with lances were considered shock troops because of their implementation of shock tactics. I use the definitions of classical military historians, the like of Delbruck, which preceded and probably influenced von Hutier. If you don't like this historical instances about shock troops to be in the same article then find me an alternate name for shock troops before von Hutier. BTW in my opinion this shock troops article should be merged with stormtrooper under the title of assualt troops. That's the proper tranlation of Stoßtruppen. I also think it was originally written Stosstruppen and the alternate emerged after the 90s reform in the German language. Waiting for your resopnse. Nik Sage • Talk 02:58, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Another acceptable translation is impact troops. Nik Sage • Talk 03:00, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Merge? Stormtroopers may have been employed, -sometimes-, as shock troops. But didn't SS troops also run concentration camps? Hardly a task for shock troops. And, prior to the war, weren't they also employed for "political" duties, like "crystal night", and wading into, and brutally disrupting, the competing political parties' conventions and demonstrations? Also hardly the task of shock troops. I think this merge is a really, really, bad idea. — Geo Swan 03:29, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Dude, you are mixing up different types of German soldiers. The SS stands for Schutzstaffel which began as a praetorian guard for Hitler and became a fighting force which was seperated from the Wehrmacht. The Crystal Night pogrom was done by the ordinary German citizens and the Sturmabteilung , i.e. the storm divison (which is frequently refered to as stormtroopers. The Stosstruppen was a German unit developed during WWI. I agree there is some confusion with the terms and articles. I'm waiting for Philip's response before I'll start editing. Nik Sage • Talk 06:39, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Hi. The terms being used, IMO, preclude any merging of these articles. Terms like assault troops, shock troops or impact troops all apply generically to combatants who have received additional training specifically to achieve a short term, battlefield, tactical advantage. As a military genre these forces would include such units as norse bezerkers as well as WWI German Army Stormtroopers. The use of the term Stormtroopers is an anglicisation of a German phrase which has become accepted terminology in English. As with most translations there is a grey area of usage but generally the term Stormtrooper is used, militarily, to define German assault troops using special training and tactics as described in this article. There is also some seeming confusion with the SS, the SA and the term Stormtroopers. The Stormtroopers were the SA, while the SS were originally a bodyguard for the party leader, with their loyalty directly to the leader, Adolf Hitler. It is most likely that Hitler saw this as being necessary since the SA's loyalty would seemingly lie with their own leader, Ernst Rohm. The role of the SS though was varied. The combat element, the Waffen (Armed) SS fought as politicised soldiers, although one division Totenkopf (Death's Head) was largely raised from the ranks of concentration camp guards. Interesting discussion. user:Daryn Reeds/ Darynreeds . 23.11, 12 February 2007 (Sydney,Aus.)

As I said before: I think that if there is a merge should be the other way around. Stormtrooper should be merged into "shock troops" initially with a redirect to that name and with a section in the merged article called "Stormtroopers". Once done then we can discuss if the combined article should be moved to "Assault troops". There are other articles around like fireteam which have to be considered if the article is moved to "assault troops" so better one thing at a time. The other possibly better alternative is to create a section in the "Shock troops" article called "Stormtroopers" and put a "Maim article" at the top or the section referencing this article. As two editor have suggested that the merge does not take place I would suggest that is the course of action to take at the moment. However the use of "Shock troops" for anything other than "Stormtroopers" and soviet formations is limited, and I suspect it used by post world War I historians to describe units in the past that had an impact like "Stormtroopers".

One other point assault troops would tend to imply troops used for an assault on a fortified or entrenched position. Usage would suggest that heavy cavalry can be called shock troops, but cavalry would not usually be called assault troops. Further now that the term "shock and awe" has been introduced to describe a blitzkrieg attack with emphasis on the air arm, I am not sure that combined arms attacks are best placed under "assault troops". --Philip Baird Shearer 09:43, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

I am in favour of a merging. The meaning behind the terms are similar enough, though we should certainly make note of any differences between the words themselves, as well as any particular cases where the words should not be used interchangedly, presuming such a case exists. MVMosin 20:17, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

stormtroopers star wars

storm troopers are a group of soldiers in the 4th 5th 6th movie of the star wars triogy. they were cammanded by darth vader and other generals in the movie. storm troopers use to be clones when the 1st 2nd 3rd movie. the clone troopers was orderd by emporer palptine the order 66 witch was made for the clones to kill the jedi of the republic then he turns the galixy to his empire then the small group called the rebel aliance. witched aposed the emporer. stormtrooper were the emporer's army and defence from the rebels. eventullay the rebels beat the empire when they destoryed the death star the secound time. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Trevor5575 (talk • contribs) 21:10, 28 February 2007 (UTC).

Is this a joke? MVMosin 20:15, 17 April 2007 (UTC)