Talk:.30-30 Winchester

I removed the claims relating to Leverevolution ammo. The "superiority" of the loading has not been verified by unbiased testers, and seem to stem mostly from Hornady's advertising department. A quick study of the ballistics using commercial software indicates that the gains over flat-nosed bullets is less than 10% in actual usable range. I think it's best if we avoid perpetuating hype.

From http://www.chuckhawks.com/leverevolution.htm, a report by Guns and Shooting Online staff:

It has taken some 145 years, but we finally have spitzer bullets in high performance, factory loaded .30-30 ammunition... Congratulations to Hornady! Those are the best averages ever achieved with either rifle shooting factory loaded ammunition. It is superior both ballistically and in accuracy to all previous .30-30 factory loads tested to date.

I'll put it back and put in a link to the article as a reference. scot 15:35, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

• • • • The original source for the G&S and most of the other magazine and Web articles stem from press releases from Hornady, or from magazine writers from publications who carry full page ads from Hornady. Careful study of even their published data indicates a 10% superiority at best, and there is some debate as to whether the ammo meets SAAMI specifications in regard to pressure levels. The claimed "advantages" can mostly be attributed to this cause. Wikipedia is supposed to be factual... not corporate hype. *****

Not entirely comfortable with NPOV of last paragraph. If anyone has suggestions for rewording, please feel free to edit. The LEVERevolution information is newsworthy, but I would like to avoid sounding like a commercial for their products. Kemkerj 08:04, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

And what does the second "30" in ".30-30" stand for? Maybe it should be included in the article. Graham Bould 15:31, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

According to Legendary Sporting Rifles by Sam Fadala, it stands for the amount of smokeless powder. Even though having the powder charge as the second number is generally a blackpowder thing, the practice was still around at that time. It is true that originally Winchester did not call it a .30-30, but .30WCF. After widespread use of the former term, however, they changed references to the cartridge in their literature.

I've added to the first paragraph and fixed the reference indicating the second thirty was for reloading with black powder. I've confirmed in my sources and here: http://www.leverguns.com/articles/3030history.htm that the second "thirty" was added by Marlin to avoid having to put "Winchester" on the side of their barrels. The .30-30 was never a black powder round, though the use of a powder weight was a convetion taken from the era of black powder cartridges such as .45-70 or .50-70. It's doubtful thirty grains of black powder would fit in the small .30-30 case even if compressed.

Question: Where is the attribution for the Hornady LEVERevolution polymer tips getting "mashed up" in the magazine? I've not heard, nor read that anywhere and would like to know where the information came from. I found a few forum comments from armchair ballisticians who speculate that they will deform in a day of hunting and the warning on the back of the box that extended storage in the magazine may deform the tips. Kemkerj 01:53, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

7.62x51R? I've never heard of this cartridge being called anything except ".30-30" or ".30-30 Winchester". --Commander Zulu 11:38, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

7.62x51R is a European designation; the only place you're likely to see it is guns intended for the European market, such as combination guns. See http://www.deerstalker.com/european_cartridge_equivalents.htm for a source to back this up. scot 16:14, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Requested Move

I've put in a request to move this page, since the cartridge is much more often referred to as the .30-30, rather than .30 WCF, and I can't do it myself because there are already redirects with history at .30-30 and .30-30 Winchester. Night Gyr 22:24, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

• COMMENT Isn't Winchester .30-30 more common? 132.205.45.148 18:48, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

In common usage, Winchester .30-30 refers to a gun made by Winchester and chambered in .30-30, just like you'd say Ruger 9mm or Marlin .30-30. Wincester's name for the cartidge is .30 WCF, and Marlin came up with the name .30-30 to avoid having to write Winchester on their rifles. The .30-30 Winchester name is a hybrid of the two and (pure speculation here) might have come about due to the common naming convention used for cartridges such as the .56-56 Spencer, the .45-70 Government, the .30-40 Krag. scot 16:23, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

• Either would do, actually, as long as .30-30 and Winchester are in the name, since they're both common usage and fairly official, but google gets [1] >40,000 for .30-30 winchester vs. [2]~16,000 for winchester .30-30. I think it just rolls off the tongue better. Night Gyr

2/2/07 by John Kort aka w30wcf Thank you for your accurate description of this grand old cartridge. The misconception that the -30 meant wt./grs. of black powder is alive and well based on other definitions I have read. Thank you for setting the record straight. (The .30-30 case will actually hold close to 45 grs. of b.p.)

I wrote the .30-30 History on the Leverguns forum that you referred to. One thing I will mention is that the original powder used was called DuPont .30 Caliber Smokeless and in testing, I found it similar to 4064 in burning rate rather than the 3031 referenced.

Over time, faster burning powders (like 3031) were used to increase the muzzle velocity to 2,220 f.p.s.(170 gr.). The original muzzle velocity was 1,970 f.p.s. under a 160 gr. bullet.

Thank you again, John

repetitive

the article twice mentions the article twice mentions the fact that the 30 30 has a flat tip or whatever in order to prevent premature detanation.