User talk:Nug: Difference between revisions

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Welcome!

Hello, Nug, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Again, welcome! User:Advocatus diaboli

Hi

Hi, could you please set an e-mail (Special:Preferences), so that you could be contacted. Thanks.

As for Occupation of Latvia: considering the fact that the third opinions [1], Request(s) for comment [2] have not calmed down the Soviet POV promoters, I think Arbitration must be started. But I can join only on next week. And I do think that adding a neutrality dispute tag is considered vandalism, in case no sources are given on the talk page Constanz - Talk 11:11, 15 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Occupation of Latvia

As you see, this is a hopeless case - I mean to argue with such users. The whole talk page is full of proof why Latvia was occupied, and proof that the side which says L. wasn't occupied ... has no sources. I'll try Arbitration. Constanz - Talk 07:34, 26 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Arbitration regarding Occupation of Latvia 1940-1945

I hereby notify you, that I started the arbitration case: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration#Occupation_of_Latvia_1940-1945. Constanz - Talk 10:35, 26 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think it would make more sense arguing on arbitration page, or, when there's much to say, on corresponding talk page. Latvia article talk seems to be useless. Best regards, Constanz - Talk 09:57, 27 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Advise

As I wrote, I would welcome the acceptance of the case by the ArbCom although I suspect if the ArbCom will restrict the case to the user conduct the only party that may be punished will be Constanz himself for the fierce revert warring and incivility. But as for me personally, I have a very thick skin and much higher tolerance than many, so this is not my concern.

I came here merely to give you an advise in connection to your comparison of myself with the hypothetical Holocaust deniers in the Holocaust article. The Holocaust article achieved the current stage through the participation of the multitude of editors. If the denier is faced with the multitude of users convinced in the lunatism of the denier's stance, his position will be indefensible and he will have to either desist or be blocked for revert warring.

The problem with this article can be solved by attracting the outside observers. Such observer brought in by the article's RfC also suggested the same thing I was suggesting all along, to rename the article into the History... " title as the first step.[3] You flatly refused the proposal from an unbiased observer though. You should attract more people to gauge the consensus, preferably from different regions of the world. You may want to wait for more visitors generated for RfC or you may want to contact editors who have interest in historic articles directly.

That you instead rant and compare your opponents to the Holocaust deniers is counterproductive and will not help you achieve your goal. Happy edits, --Irpen 20:59, January 27,

I am somewhat surprised by the slightly intimidatory tone of your "advise". Your threats against Constanz are meaningless to me, I do not know him nor have I corresponded with him.

I wasn't comparing yourself personally to Holocaust deniers, but the implications if your well crafted technique to exploit WP:NPOV were to be utilised by Holocaust deniers. It is incumbant upon the individual placing a POV tag to provide some citations to reliable sources of the implied alternative POV when challenged. Chronically failing to provide cites to published sources to support that position when challanged, particularly over a considerable period of time, must be construed as vandalism. Let's face it, you have admitted you preference to deleting the article all together, and you admit the difficulty in that approach, so it only adds to the perception that you have resorted to an alternative means to eviscerate the article.

By the way, I reside in Australian and was a casual observer with no particular emotional stake in the article. I came off the fence recently when it became apparent that two or three people were abusing the spirit of WP:NPOV to push their revisionist agenda Martintg 11:39, 28 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

RfArb

Hi, thanks again for your contributions. However, I recommend caution, while talking with arbitrators (about voting). The line between just a notice and canvassing may sometimes be thin - and I'm sure our opponents would take advantage of absolutely every chance they'd find! Esp. as the tide has turned, so to say. Regards, Constanz - Talk 09:15, 30 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for making me aware of that link. There is a lot to learn in regard to the Wikipedian way. My intent was to notifiy of changes, my apologies if anyone was offended. Martintg 11:50, 30 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Occupation of Latvia

Hello,

An Arbitration case involving you has been opened: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Occupation of Latvia. Please add any evidence you may wish the arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Occupation of Latvia/Evidence. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Occupation of Latvia/Workshop.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, Thatcher131 01:23, 3 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

So it's open now. I hope you can help bringing this seemingly insolvable 'dispute' to an end. I have to warn though that I myself will probably not be able to participate from Sunday (afternoon) to Wednesday afternoon. Hopefully you can settle the problem, anyway.Constanz - Talk 09:57, 3 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I hereby award you the **Exceptional Newcomer** award for your tireless contributions explaining the Baltic history and for your bold efforts to combat tendentious editing. Great job! --Constanz - Talk 12:31, 15 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Occupation of Latvia

This arbitration case has closed and the final decision is available at the link above. The parties identified in the decision as having acted poorly in the dispute regarding Occupation of Latvia 1940-1945 are admonished to avoid such behavior in the future. That article is placed on probation, and any editor may be banned from it, or from other reasonably related pages, by an uninvolved administrator for disruptive edits, including, but not limited to, edit warring, inciviilty, and original research. The Arbitration Committee reserves the right to appoint one or more mentors at any time, and the right to review the situation in one year, if appropriate. The parties are strongly encouraged to enter into a mediation arrangement regarding any article-content issues that may still be outstanding. If the article is not substantially improved by continued editing, the Arbitration Committee may impose editing restrictions on users whose editing is counterproductive or disruptive. This notice is given by a Clerk on behalf of the Arbitration Committee. Newyorkbrad 23:33, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

on Bonner words

Hi, yes your comments is about V-Day, Soviet Union and Baltic States. But it is not direcly related to the Broze Soldier events. Beatles Fab Four 10:49, 9 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Soviet occupation denialism

You might be interested in a recently created article Soviet occupation denialism and ongoing debate in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Soviet occupation denialism. DLX 06:19, 20 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

RfC

Please participate in Talk:Estland#Do we want to keep the article together or make it a disambig? Alex Bakharev 00:59, 31 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

re CheckUser

Point taken, although releasing the relevant information would at minimum require User:3 Löwi's consent as well. It is apparent to me that I could be wrong about this. I will ask for someone more knowledgeable about CheckUser to take a look at the issue. ··coel acan 14:43, 31 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

As the very first thing, now that I am block-free, let me thank you for vouching for me in the meantime. I owe you a Wiki-favour now, --3 Löwi 20:19, 5 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

nashism

I suggested the defenders of the article to start working on a reasonable artice, in this place:User:Biophys/Nashism. No one botherd to do this. I wrote several times that I do not deny the validity of the topic. However unlike many voters-keepers here, I usually put my words where my mouth is and yesterday I started from verifiable historical events at the origin of the term. Let me repeat again: I started collecting facts, not speculations of some home-brewed politologists. And in my honest opinion, other than in reference to the three mentioned political organizations, the term must be discussed only as a cute Russian neologism for a wide range of already well-known tribalism phenomena ranging from nationalism to racism, rather than a special political movement or a new kind of "ideology". `'юзырь:mikka 15:55, 11 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Judenfrei

Unfortunately, when you added your comments, it overwrote other people's comments. I reverted your addition to bring them back. Feel free to re-add your own comments. -- Kesh 02:01, 17 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

THANKS!!!

Thank you so much!!! I really appreciate it. -- Jac_roe 17:38, 18 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

WP:RFC/U on Petri Krohn filed

Somehow Digwurren forgot to note you... You might be interested to know that Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Petri Krohn has been filed.--Alexia Death 21:04, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Lauck's publications

Has "Poisonous Mushroom" actually been published in multiple languages? The site seems to say that he's trying to get more translations but hasn't yet (for want of translators, I imagine), but that other works are available in multiple languages. That said, I might've just been clicking on the wrong links. It's not exactly the kind of site I want to spend too long at :) BigHaz - Schreit mich an 03:58, 22 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't hang around that site to long either, but it clearly said it publishes a newpaper in 12 languages. If he already publishes a newspaper in multiple languages, presumably he has sufficient number of translators on board. The site did mention that there were a number of translations of the "Poisonous Mushroom" were currently being worked on. At the very least there is an English translation and obviously the original German version. As there is an Estonian translation, then likely there would be a Finnish one too, and Russian as well if this translator is over 40. Being the USA, I don't think a Spanish version would be difficult to come by. Seems to me the reason that the Estonian version is highlighted on this site was because of the fact that it had drawn the attention of the Estonian Police, not because it was uniquely available in the Estonian language as implied by the Wikipedia article. Martintg 06:09, 22 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Could well be (and well argued, too - I was just going on gut feelings). I've updated the article to reflect that he was at least planning more translations and linked that to the site. Someone's bound to poke around there one day to see what else he's offering, so I daresay the other translations will get mentioned when they're for sale. Is Estonian really that close to Finnish as you say? The only Finns I've known can't understand more than the general gist of Estonian texts. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 07:20, 22 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The languages are reasonable similar, probably closer than Dutch and German. I believe more Estonians understand Finnish than Finns understand Estonian, probably in part due to older Estonians listening to Finnish broadcasts during the Soviet occupation and partly due to Finland being the preferred destination for young Estonians seeking work, hence the motivation to learn the language. Martintg 09:33, 22 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I see. Out of curiosity, do you have any recommendations for books on the Baltic region (particularly Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania)? I'd love to know a bit about the histories of those countries, but I can't seem to find much. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 09:51, 22 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Here is a good collection books on the Baltics [4]

Thanks for that one, mate. Amazon was giving me no love beforehand, so I'm glad to see there's more than I'd thought. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 12:55, 22 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Express Your opinion, please

Red army crimes in Estonia - attacked article, voting for deleting debate is going on page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Red_army_crimes_in_Estonia
Red Army crimes

— Preceding unsigned comment added by ttturbo (talk • contribs)

Are you (also) my sock puppet?

Greetings, it seems that you are also one of the Tartu (!) sock puppets, at least in the poor minds possessed by demons of ultranationalism. See [5] and [6]. E.J. 07:36, 16 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't know Tartu is located in Australia. Perhaps these guys are confusing nazi-skeletons-in-closets with this [7] Martintg 04:25, 17 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Estophilia

In Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2007_July_18#Estophilia there has been pretty much green light given for recreation of the article with more content. Digwuren has put his sources on his talk. I was hoping you could take it up and do it, perhaps first in your userspace and then when shown to admins in the right place. I try to help but I need to keep my head down a bit in the light of recent events.--Alexia Death 17:29, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I will let the DRV run its course. My preference is that Estophilia is undeleted so we can use that as the foundation. Martintg 20:54, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Reply about Estophilia

First off, I want to say how much fascinating stuff I have learned about Estonia in the last week or two! It has really been educational for me. I consider myself somewhat of a news junkie, and yet I haven't seen a single mention of the controversy going on in that part of the world in Western media. It's been very interesting if nothing else!

With that in mind, it looks like I may have indeed goofed on this one. I was thrown off by Digwuren's timing... he created the Estophilia article just as the AfD for Estophobia was getting really intense, and I though he was trying to make a point of some kind. It appears I was mistaken about that, and in fact based on the sources provided by yourself and Digwuren, as well as the historical context, it looks like this one may have a better chance of surviving AfD than Estophobia did. Sorry for my failure to assume good faith, and best of luck! --Jaysweet 16:01, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

While trying to source Estophobia, I noticed that Estophilia was much easier to source online. Thus, instead of fighting for Estophobia now, I concentrated on an easier article, and decided to shelf Estophobia until the autumn, when libraries work again. That's all there is to it. Digwuren 05:43, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"Allied occupation of Europe"

The concept was an WP:POINT invention by User:Petri Krohn, to construct an aura of moral equivalence over the Soviet occupation and the deeds of the Western allies by synthesising Allied occupation of Germany and Soviet occupation. References regarding Soviet occupation fit better into their appropriate articles -- such as Soviet occupation of Baltic states -- than here. In fact, I would suggest removing the artificial structure from this article, and WP:AFDing what remains under WP:POVFORK and WP:NOR; unfortunately, if it would be presented to WP:AFD with the artificial structure intact, too many people would suspect There Might Actually Be Something To It -- especially now that Wikipedia's mirrors have upped the Google result count from two digits to over 4000. :-( Digwuren 05:41, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Do you think that in its current form, an WP:AFD based on original synthesis claims would succeed? To me, it seems any challenges and associated removals would only make the article look better right now. Digwuren 11:14, 30 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The article in its current form seems to be nothing more than a collection of links to other articles, with a contradictory synthesised introduction. How can liberal democracies in Western Europe be "occupied"? Seems to be a POV fork. Interest in WW2 topics is wider than the circle of our usual friends, so an AfD may succeed. Martintg 19:23, 30 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your assessment. Accordingly, I have nominated the article for deletion, and possibly stumbled upon a bug in TW. Digwuren 01:36, 31 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Just to be clear, the category is nominated separately, although both nominations reference each other. Digwuren 13:27, 31 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you

Thanks for adding a lead to History of Estonia! Reinis^talk 12:37, 29 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Quick question

While on RC patrol, I noticed that the Estland article (that you'd previously redirected per talk discussion) was reverted. Instead of engaging in an edit war with a subject I was unfamiliar with, I thought I'd drop you a note to let you know, and perhaps you could take care of it properly? Thanks! ^Ariel♥Gold 12:27, 31 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I reverted it. The article is now at Estland (disambiguation); the reversal introduced a content fork.

I'm not too happy with this arrangement, for reasons that are obvious and probably the same as those of the reverter, but I'm not, at this time, sure the consensus can be improved. Digwuren 13:25, 31 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Digwuren, honestly I'm completely unfamiliar with the history of the article, or reasons it was redirected, so I can offer no thoughts on it. I simply noticed that Martintg's explanation was consistent with the talk page, and therefore it flagged that his redirect was reverted. I'll let him and the others involved sort it out :) ^Ariel♥Gold 13:35, 31 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks guys. That's what happens when living in a different timezone, I am tucked up in bed snoozing when all the fun is happening :) Martintg 19:13, 31 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Essay on how 3RR hurts the project and a proposal to fix it.

Hi! I would appreciate it, if you could give me your thoughts on this essay: Accusations of collaboration: 3RR hurts Wikipedia --Alexia Death the Grey 09:15, 19 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Alexia! I'll certainly have a look at it and put my thoughts on the essay talk page in the next day or two. Martintg 21:53, 19 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Please do anything to avoid edit warring

I have blocked the second user (User:RJ CG)who repeatedly added dubious sources and POV phrasing to the Bronze Soldier article, and is a possible sockpuppet of the first; both appear to be single-purpose accounts adding the same tendentious material to the same articles in the same voice. However, the most important thing is to avoid an edit war. Please see what you can do to avoid this (WP:NOFEEDING), such as by asking the other user to suggest controversial changes on the talk page first. ProhibitOnions ^(T) 09:58, 25 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Digwuren

Hello,

An Arbitration case in which you commented has been opened: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Digwuren. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Digwuren/Evidence. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Digwuren/Workshop.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, ArbComBot 00:05, 26 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

IP

Martin you ask me a question which i have already answered it. What if you discover an intrusion attempt from let's say Colombia exactly at the time you'd have blocked someone from Colombia? And then you hear about an issue related to a certain group of editors from Colombia being accused of "TartuColombia". Obviously you'd think about the blocked user if not than someone from his group. The important is that the ArbCom verify it and see who is the owner of the IP and why that happened and what action should be taken. He can be innocent as he can be guilty. We'll see. -- FayssalF - ^{Wiki me up®} 02:57, 28 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

So basically what you did was take a routine firewall alert, failed to assume good faith, and started screaming its Digwuren? And you don't see anything wrong with that? From a programmer Id expect more understanding of networking... Really.--Alexia Death the Grey 05:44, 28 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Pet troll grooming

You might be interested to read through User talk:ProhibitOnions#Accusations of WP:SYNTH and WP:OR where, basically, Irpen harasses ProhibitOnions over blocking RJ CG. Ironically, ProhibitOnions' rationale for that is exactly the same that FayssalF's rationale for blocking RJ CG was, yet there's no evidence of a similar "discussion" between Irpen and FayssalF. Digwuren 11:56, 29 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ilya1166

Apart from editing Russia related articles, spends time edit warring on Bronze Soldier or Estonia-Russia relations focusing on Russian accusations of Nazism in Estonia. [8]

We need evidence of specific edits. Fred Bauder 16:01, 3 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Singing Revolution

Some time ago I taged a sentence "Lithuania was the first of the Baltic States where the movement now known as the Singing Revolution appeared." in Singing Revolution article with {{when}} now I see that you have replaced this by a reference. Good, however this is not what was needed - please clerify what date exactly it was, if it is given in your source. You see the article states that in Latvia and Estonia it started in 1987, for example, first open protest in Latvia took place on 14 June, 1987, but first Lithuania-related year mentioned there is 1988 -- Xil/talk 17:32, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Withdrawal fo Tremers award support

Just wondering why...--Alexia Death the Grey 10:30, 14 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 185: / Line 185: @@
 ==[[Singing Revolution]]==
 Some time ago I taged a sentence "''Lithuania was the first of the Baltic States where the movement now known as the Singing Revolution appeared.''" in [[Singing Revolution]] article with <nowiki>{{when}}</nowiki> now I see that you have replaced this by a reference. Good, however this is not what was needed - please clerify what date exactly it was, if it is given in your source. You see the article states that in Latvia and Estonia it started in 1987, for example, first open protest in Latvia took place on 14 June, 1987, but first Lithuania-related year mentioned there is 1988 -- [[User:Xil|Xil]]/[[User_talk:Xil|talk]] 17:32, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
+== Withdrawal fo Tremers award support ==
+Just wondering why...--[[User:Alexia Death|Alexia Death the Grey]] 10:30, 14 September 2007 (UTC)