Talk:September 25

--mav 00:20, 1 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Selected anniversaries for the "On this day" section of the Main Page

Please read the selected anniversaries guidelines before editing this box.

September 25 Kaweah Gap, Sequoia National Park 844 – Viking expansion: A Viking fleet arrived near Seville, then part of the Emirate of Córdoba, and began a raid of the city that was eventually repelled by Muslim defenders. 1790 – Peking opera was born with the introduction of Hui opera to Beijing by the "Four Great Anhui Troupes" in honour of the Qianlong Emperor's 80th birthday. 1890 – Sequoia National Park (pictured) was established to conserve giant sequoia trees in an area affected by logging in the southern Sierra Nevada in California. 1983 – In one of the largest prison escapes in British history, 38 Provisional Irish Republican Army prisoners hijacked a meals lorry and broke out of HM Prison Maze in County Antrim, Northern Ireland. Harald Hardrada (d. 1066) John Lymburn (b. 1880) Marian Breland Bailey (d. 2001) Wang Bingzhang (d. 2005) More anniversaries: September 24 September 25 September 26

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Shigeru Miyamoto

I think that the entry about Shigeru Miyamoto is a little bit out of place as something important or to be considered as relevant compared to historical entries.

This is truth.

-- october 1 2005 - 20:20 pm

Halo 3

Why should the Halo 3 release be removed from this page? It is a huge event for video games and will likely sell extremely well. Halo3 is the most anticipated game release for 2007. So to whoever is reverting it please post your reason please. L CuRtiS 22:02, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

First, it is a future event. Those don't go here no matter how important they are. Second, it is a video game. See here. -- Mufka ^{(u) (t) (c)} 22:06, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

According to the link you provided, the sections for births and deaths should also be removed. So should some of the events. L CuRtiS 01:49, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Halo 3 will Be there either you quit pissing yourself or go kill yourself let some people live in a fantasy you ass.

Please remain civil or you will be blocked. On September 25 Halo 3 can be added, it is going to be more notable than some of the events on the page (bearing in mind that perhaps they don't belong but I'm not very familiar with the policy regarding date articles). The thing is though, it has not been released yet, perhaps the game will be a complete flop, it's highly unlikely but possible so we should wait until there has been an event before adding it. Note also that the link provided (Wikipedia:Notability on a global scale over time#What Is Not Notable) is not a policy or guideline. James086^{Talk | Email} 12:40, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

"Halo3 is the most anticipated game release for 2007." - That's opinion, not fact. What about The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass? Or how about movie releases? Should Pirates of the Carribean: At World's End be added as well? Here's some more notable events for today: GM workers begin strike after deadline passes, Anger at Iran leader's NY speech, FBI: Violent Crimes in U.S. Approaching 5-Year Peak. The fact is, it's fancruft. I didn't put the final episode of Gilmore Girls on that date list. Just because it happens to be important to you does not mean it's notable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.116.162.162 (talk) 17:47, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Ok, then how is this: Halo 3 will be the LARGEST REVENUE GROSSING MEDIA EVENT IN HISTORY. Bigger than any Movie, TV show, Book, Game, pay-per-view, ANYTHING MEDIA. It happened with the release of Halo 2, It will happen again with Halo 3. Tomorrow, Halo 3 will go into the record books, and into this calender, and there is nothing you or anybody else can do about it (except Jimbo Whales, who could simply shut the site down :) 68.143.88.2 18:14, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

And yes, being the best/biggest makes it notable. BURRRRRRRRN 68.143.88.2 18:16, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes, there is something s/he can do about it. If there is consensus not to enter Halo 3 then it will be kept out of the list. I would argue though that the release of Halo 3 is more notable than the 73 000 workers striking. However, even though the game is out, there are no sources to say that it's notable. When it breaks records then it may be notable. I agree that the inclusion is on the edge of what should/shouldn't and until it's clear with all parties, it should default to "not included" in the article/list. James086^{Talk | Email} 23:38, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

An event is rarely notable on the day that it occurs. Only on reflection and in historical context can an event be evaluated as notable (in most cases - a notable exception is the assassination of a president). Remember that newsworthy does not mean noteworthy. Not all records are notable. In 50 years will anyone care that this event occurred? Absolutely not. I also often see the argument "But what about all these other events, surely this is more important than those." That is a vapid argument and simply indicates ignorance of the fact that one can only address one issue at a time and the newest issues always get the attention first. 71.255.161.120 00:06, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

That's true (see my first comment) and I'm starting to doubt whether the release belongs. Yes it has broken records but it will not hold up to the 50 year test. I'm a big fan of the series though so I'm not exactly neutral when it comes to Halo, not the best quality when trying to write a neutral encyclopedia. James086^{Talk | Email} 08:28, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

"In 50 years will anyone care that this event occurred? Absolutely not." Ummmm...yeah... Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. You're argument is COMPLETELY FLAWED because your point is based off a bastardization of policy itself. How do you know nobody will care? Did you gaze 50 years into the future? Does Wikipedia policy state "...Well, if we can assume it is going to be notable in the future, by god!! Lets just stick it in there!!" No, it doesn't. You CAN NOT use a crystal ball argument on Wikipedia, it just doesn't make sense. Oh, and BTW, Halo 2 is 4-5 years old now, and it is STILL being used as a case study in many studios and universities. It is also STILL the MOST PLAYED GAME ON XBOX LIVE...EVEN AFTER 4 YEARS (not surprisingly, as of yesterday Halo 3 is the most played game on Xbox). Next time, make your argument logical. 68.143.88.2 15:09, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

it is clearly illustrated in the policy on this that, dates pertaining to individual video games are not notable enough. therefore i am deleting it again. i will watch this. This may need an admin Ragingbullfrog 09:10, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

it is clearly illustrated in the policy that...individual video games are not notable enough. Wow, thats news to me. Wholly crap, that changes everything...except... POLICY SAYS NOTHING LIKE THAT. I suggest you read before you make comments. Besides, it's NOT THE GAME FOR THE LAST TIME AND FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, it is notable because of the economic impact it had in the industry. It caused Microsoft stock to increase! A freakin' video game! Do you have any idea how significant that is, that a single video game release can make a significantly positive increase in a companies stock the size of Microsoft's in it's 1st 24 hours of release? OMG, open your eyes people. 68.143.88.2 15:16, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I'm going to try and explain this in language as simple as possible... We are not asking that the game be included because it is, in fact, a new released game. Ok, lets get that out of the way. Who cares about Halo 3 the game. The NOTABLE REASON, once again... NOTABLE (please read here if you don't understand) REASON to undeniably add it to the list is because it is meets one of these requirements "Largest, biggest, most significant" of a given industry. It is, once again, the largest revenue grossing media release in the HISTORY OF THE PLANET. No other form of any other media (e.g. movies, books, video games, etc) has ever acquired more revenue in the first 24 hours of release; over $125,000,000.00 dollars. THAT IS FUCKING HUGE!!! So, please don't be a POV pushing, I-don't-want-it-on-the-list-because-I-don't-play-video-games, biased because you think your "mature" contributor. Just because it's a "video game" does not take away from it's WORLDWIDE SIGNIFICANT IMPACT on the industry, and on the economy in general. Additionally, please read this essay. Thank you 68.143.88.2 14:53, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

For someone who "doesn't give a fuck", you certainly have said a lot about your opinion. -- 12.116.162.162 17:54, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

please calm down, a consensus requires more than just your opinion, from here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability_on_a_global_scale_over_time#What_Is_Not_Notable

"What Is Not Notable

• In general, events that would not be of interest globally/that do not have an impact on more than one country.

Births and deaths (except assassinations) Future events - this is speculation Dates that pertain to television programs, movies, books, video games, etc. - this is not notable on a global scale " read the last line whilst i dont disagree the release of halo 3 has a massive global impact on the industry as you say, that does not mean it ahs a golbal impact in general

and i am an avid video gamer but i just dont think this event is as notable in human history as the other things noted on this page15:26, 26 September 2007 (UTC) Ragingbullfrog 15:30, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Look, I'm calmed down. This is just driving me crazy. For example, you say "this is not notable on a global scale", then you say, "halo 3 has a massive global impact on the industry as you say". Do you not see how contradictory this sounds? It did have an impact on a global scale...economically. Some of the other markets, Europe for example, have not had time to develope examples via press releases and other news media, but it will come. There is no denying something is a "global impact" if it generates that much money. When the final figures are in, they are saying $155,000,000 on release day. That is more than any Spiderman movie grossed over an entire weekend! Did you know there is also more media tie-ins than any other media event in history? Halo 3 "leased" a NASCAR with a new paintjob. Pepsi Co. invented a new "gaming drink" themed Halo 3. Microsoft spent more money on TV advertising than the GDP of the 19 lowest preforming emerging countries!

GameStop fired over 75 employees for playing the game early. Over 10,000 stores across the United States and 600 across Europe opened up at midnight on release day to supply the massive demand. In Europe, they opened at midnight! I can't find a single other event where that has happened over there. Halo 3 sold over 3,000,000 pre-orders, at a minimum of $60.00 each. That is $180,000,000.00 in just pre-orders alone minimum! Xbox live servers all over Europe and in same places in the United States failed due to usage volume last night directly caused by Halo 3. All Internet traffic slowed 0.8% due to the massive bandwidth from Halo 3 online matches. How can this not be notable? 68.143.88.2 15:49, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

'global impact' is different from 'global impact to the industry', that is my point of course halo 3 has an article, and i believe that the realease of halo 3 is probably notable enough to have it own article. however this doesn't affect human history like the other items in this list such as wars, disasters etc. For example how much effect did this event have on people living in third world countries where no-one has a 360? None for them this is a non-event for that reason it is not notable enough for this page, but of course it is notable enough for other parts of wikipedia

you could be right about this whole thing, the economic impact of the release was massive but i'm just not sure if that qualifies it for historical notability. For example fluctuations in prices of commodities like oil occur and have massive impact on the economy but are not notable enough for this page because they happen all the time, much like massive media/videogame releases. I just want others opinions

note i am not reverting your entry until other people give their opinion, out of good faith to you, and to prevent a pointless edit war Ragingbullfrog 17:05, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, thank you for the bid of good faith. I removed the reference on the list until we have other peoples opinions. It is not fair that I include it on the list simply because I'm stubborn :) and if I am to truly show good faith, I feel I should revert myself out of respect towards your opinion. So, the consensus as of now (basically you and myself) should be to wait until other editors are involved before adding it to the list. Agreed? 68.143.88.2 17:21, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

yeah agreed im not editing this , i think i will just watch it, although it seems the argument has sort of exploded below this post Ragingbullfrog 19:56, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

My reason for "suggesting" other events on the same day was to establish that there are certainly things that are more relevant and notable on a global scale, having more of an impact on people's lives than whether or not they play a video game. It has not radically changed the way video games are played. As far as the midnight release -- umm... Harry Potter? A midnight release itself should not be the determining factor of something being added to the list. It should be: is it notable? I don't know of a single instance where it made a top story on any new program, or above-the-fold on a newspaper. In 3 years, when the next killer app is released, Halo 3 will fall by the side of the road. As far as the "FUCKING HUGE"-ness of the sales -- the figures are flawed, since many of the sales were pre-ordered and pre-paid. That is -- copies of Halo 3 were sold before September 25, but not released until then. Using the figures from 68.143.88.2, that's $180 million in pre-orders. That means all those sales did not happen on September 25. I hate to burst your overshield, but that's not a 24-hour record. "Pepsi Co. invented a new 'gaming drink' themed Halo 3" - That's nothing new. (Remember the 7-Elevens-turned-Kwik-E-Marts for the Simpsons movie?) It is illogical to say something is notable because the marketing people say it is. That's the purpose of marketing - to get you to believe that you need something that you don't and to buy it. -- 12.116.162.162 17:52, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Until we get actual sales figures from a source other than Microsoft reporting day-of-release sales and not pre-orders, it is inaccurate to say that it broke sales records. -- 12.116.162.162 18:09, 26 September

2007 (UTC)

^^^^BTW, Microsoft is a publicly traded company. By law they have to release accurate figures (duh) 68.143.88.2 18:29, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Wow! Great points! Now lets see why they don't matter and/or just aren't relevant:

• 1) Pre-orders are not the entire balance. They cost $5.00. You can't pay for the pre-order before it is released...hence "pre-order", not "pre-sale". Check your sources before making up new information. Basically, all those sales DID happen on September 25th".

• 2) Name once instance where Harry Potter was sold at mid-night in Europe.

• 3) "In three years when the next killer app is release halo 3 will fall by the side of the road". Ummm...Halo 1 and Halo 2 are STILL the most played games on Xbox, the latter is the most played game on Xbox live. Halo 1 = 6 years old, Halo 2 = 3 years old. Obviously history doesn't repeat itself with your level of thinking...which is basically...flawed. Please add common sense. If Halo 3 shares the same success as it's predecessors (which is highly likely), then it will be the most played game for a very, very long time.

• 4) Give the Newspapers time, Halo 3 will be front page of the business section -- watch! Just like Halo 2 which did $125,000,000.00 it's opening day.

• 5)"certainly things that are more relevant and notable on a global scale"...hmmmmm. Anyone living on planet earth experienced a 0.8% slower connection to the internet as a direct result of massive Xbox live Halo 3 play. This is not notable....how?

• 6) $180,000,000.00 in pre-orders itself if notable. There has not been an instance, not even close (except Halo 2), with that revenue in pre-orders. I've looked everywhere!

• 7) Name 1 event that happened on a September 25 that tops this? The polygamist that raped 3 girls? Some workers went on strike? Wow, that effects people over in Asia.

• 8) "(Remember the 7-Elevens-turned-Kwik-E-Marts for the Simpsons movie?)"...I don't get it, you can drink those? I don't even know what a 7-Eleven is, I know what the Pepsi Co. is. I know, lets take Pepsi Co. public information in a few months on the revenue generated by this new Halo drink, and compare it to the total revenue generated by 7-Eleven. I wonder which will be higher?

• 9) Please provide a reason not POV or opinion, and then I'll take you seriously. 68.143.88.2 18:28, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Let's see if you can follow me on this

1)You can pay for pre-order before the release date. That's why the store asks you how much money you want to put down for it. "Negative - this is just wrong. I work for Best Buy ( Store 052, Springfield, Missouri). If you're that interested I'll scan and post a typical receipt of a pre-order. Maximum is $5.00. In fact, there isn't even a way to override the register to take more money. The SKU is a $5.00 SKU. Additionally, Basic rules of accounting state a depost, or pre-order is an "Open Sales Order", which is non-invoiceable. Only invoices can count as a profitable outcome on a P&L statement. Business 101. So, all these sales DID and WERE invoiced on September 25"

Gamestop lets you pay the full amount. I will grant you this though, since I cannot speak about Halo specifically, but I do know with any other game I had pre-ordered, there was the option of paying the full price at the time of pre-order.

2)Internet connections slowing 0.8%? Where did you get that figure from? And how can you possibly determine by fact that it was from Halo 3? "I'm trying to find my source, I remember reading it on USAToday maybe? I'll find it."

3) Just because nothing else significant happened does not mean Halo 3 gets on by default. If anything, nothing should be on the list. agree

4) Since you want a significant event - The President of Iran addressing the UN and the US delegation walking out just before he speaks. How's that for global? actually this is a good argument, however I think Halo 3 is more significant.

5) You misunderstood my point about 7-Eleven. Just as 7-Eleven was involved in marketing for the Simpsons movie, Pepsi was involved in marketing for Halo 3.

6) The purpose of marketing is to get people to buy a product by name recognition. The way this is achieved is by the use of advertising (TV, radio, magazines, etc.) and corporate sponsorship. For example, "Pepsi is the official soft drink of the NFL". (I'm not saying this is the case, it's just an example.

7) Because of that, you cannot use the amount of marketing to establish that it's notable. "well marketing = $$$, if Halo 3 most expensive advertising campaign in history, that would also make it notable. I'm not sure I understand your argument here?."

8) Any sales figures that I have read about have words like "projected" or "predicted" or some other word indicating it's not a solid figure. "Give it time"

9) "Name once instance where Harry Potter was sold at mid-night in Europe." England "*note Did you read your cite? It mentions nothing about going on sell at Midnight in Europe. Also, the only paragraph what mentioned the word 'midnight' was in reference to the United States." -- 12.116.162.162 19:23, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

England is in Europe -- 12.116.162.162 19:40, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

And it says "midnight London time" -- 12.116.162.162 19:41, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

This is how Halo 3 will read =

• 2007 Halo 3 is released, generating more revenue in the first 24 hours than any other media event in history, including weekend box office blockbuster holiday films. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.143.88.2 (talk) 19:11, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

The entry isn't even grammatically correct. What does it mean? Only blockbuster films released at the box office on a holiday weekend? That's what it says. Or, does it mean "box office blockbuster, weekend, or holiday films?" -- 12.116.162.162 18:03, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Please, allow me to help you, I know you're having a hard time with all these words and stuff. What I mean is that historically, Holiday blockbuster films gross more revenue than any other time of year. wat this meens is dat holoday movies are reel sucessfol. 68.143.88.2 18:48, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

But that's not what the entry says. Say what you mean. -- 12.116.162.162 19:06, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

request for comment on notability of Halo 3 release

Template:RFCmedia13:18, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

request for comment on notability of Halo 3 release

Support for inclusion It should go in based on the discussion above. 68.143.88.2 14:53, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

not notable on the calendar. It's not a 24-hour record, since most of the sales are pre-paid pre-orders, which means the sale actually took place before Sept. 25. Not even notable on a global scale. It wasn't front page news or lead story on a news program. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.116.162.162 (talk) 17:57, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm withdrawing my above comment, and changing my comment to include.

Additionally, Halo 2 is not on the November 9 calendar. Halo: Combat Evolved isn't on the calendar. The release of the XBox is though. Do you see a pattern? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.116.162.162 (talk) 18:12, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

^^^Who care about a pattern? Is that what we base notability on now? Xbox release was not really significant. Halo 2 was significant until yesterday when Halo 3 was released. But yes, if I would have thought about it, I would have added Halo 2 release to the appropriate calender for being notable. (it lost its notability when Halo 3 out preformed the revenue aspect).

comment Then it's not notable if it will be outperformed in 3 years by something else. -- 12.116.162.162 19:01, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

^^^^ hmmmmmm...has that happened yet? arguing a crystal ball case? 68.143.88.2 19:14, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

You're the one arguing a crystal ball, see above: "Give the Newspapers time, Halo 3 will be front page of the business section " -- 12.116.162.162 19:25, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

• note Pre-selling is prohibited by law. The maximum is a $5.00 refundable deposit. They are not "pre-paid". 68.143.88.2 18:36, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

• cite the law -- 12.116.162.162 19:02, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

• 1)How is pre-selling against the law [1]

That's not the law. That's a "Terms of service". And it says nothing about pre-sales -- 12.116.162.162 19:27, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

You're going to need to use a little common sense for this one. Halo 3 is Microsoft copyrighted. Microsoft controls the release. If a move/game/CD or anything copyrighted for that matter distributed to the public before the parent companies official release date, being the sole property of the said parent company, it violates copyright and/or user agreements in which violate U.S. copyright law. There have been major fines for selling/distributing movies, books, games, etc before release dates. Common sense... 68.143.88.2 19:43, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

BTW, you made a really good point here that I hadn't thought of in terms of pre-release. I had used the same argument (the copyright owner has the right to say if/when it is released) about emulators and ROMs, but I hadn't thought of it applying to things that haven't been released yet. -- 12.116.162.162 20:47, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks! I have a lot of experience with business related things. There was a Best Buy in Oklahoma that was fined $10,000 for playing Finding Nemo on a Big Screen TV for picture demonstration purposes. Also, we always get audited to ensure all counts of pre-release inventories are still in the store. The only things where it really doesn't matter are electronic items, like digital cameras. Even they have release dates, however there are either no penalties or they are rarely enforced if a store starts selling them early.

For distributing, but not for paying in advance for it. -- 12.116.162.162 19:45, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

You may be right about being able to pay for it in advance at GameStop. Still, you can't count an open sales order as an invoiced received until it's been invoiced (meaning the product has been delivered to the customer and can no longer be returned).68.143.88.2 19:47, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Ok. I'll grant you that -- 12.116.162.162 19:53, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

• 2)Examples of early release [2]

What does that have to do with this? If it's illegal, why aren't they in jail? -- 12.116.162.162 19:29, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

• 3)Why it’s notable [3]68.143.88.2 19:13, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

But not notable for the calendar page. -- 12.116.162.162 19:29, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

*comment, obviously this editor User:12.116.162.162 is pushing some kind of anti-halo POV and should be ashamed. Hopefully in real life you don't have your difficulty level set above "easy".68.143.88.2 18:36, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

• Comment You know, that's just it, I spend my entire time in "real life". -- 12.116.162.162 19:05, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

• Not noteworthy, yet Untill total sales figues of the release date are announced, the pre-orders are all this has to stand on. Although pre-orders alone may be enough to give it a place here; untill store sales figures are released I don't believe we should. Neobros 18:55, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Strong Include, and those opposed are going to feel extremely silly when the sales figures hit papers. Unless the largest single-day worldwide revenue-generating event in arts and entertainment history lacks notability to you. Certainly it should be more notable than U2 forming in a basement or some guy becoming the youngest formula one champion. Not to say these aren't notable, but be realistic here. Take your anti- video game bias somewhere else. ZG 21:54, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

New edit point

For the record, all I'm saying is in a few days, if it does indeed turn out to be the largest revenue producing media release in history, that fact should make Halo 3 note worthy enough for the calender. I am NOT saying I want it added now (see the last edit on the article page, it was me removing another uses insertion of Halo 3). This would be an extraordinary event with global impact in many different areas. This this was a movie, I would feel the same about it, but it happens to be a video game. This is a turning point for Microsoft, and the video game industry will feel the ripple effect of this release for years to come. It will penetrate to other markets, for example Sony Pictures has announced rejuvenating the Halo movie if this launch goes as predicted. I just don't want the event downplayed because it's a video game. Like I said, lets give it a few days for final figures, and if it does what is predicted I think adding the release date of the #1 media release in history is notable for a calender. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.143.88.2 (talk) 20:03, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

And I now agree with you, and I apologize for any of my comments that were harsh. I see your point, and there are some things that I didn't understand, as far as the technicalities of when the sales are considered to have taken place. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.116.162.162 (talk) 20:07, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

It's cool. I'm sorry for anything harsh I've said as well. Just an FYI: you stand your ground well; I think I've developed carpal tunnel as a direct result of this talk page. I'm still open minded, and will not make my final decision on weather or not I would like to see it included until the final figures post somewhere reliable. In the mean time, if something comes up that is notable and should be discussed, I'll remain civil and maybe brush up on how not to be a dick :) 68.143.88.2 20:13, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Awesome :) I think I should too. At least make sure I have all my facts lined up before I go commenting on things. And you stand your ground well too. I'd be really surprised if the numbers don't meet or break the projections, and as the biggest media event in history, it should be included. Until the next big thing comes out hehe ;) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.116.162.162 (talk) 20:20, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Hehe I just reminded myself of the part in Crimson Tide where there was a fight because one guy thought the Kirby Silver Surfer was awesome and thought the Moebius Silver Surfer was crap and the other guy was a Moebius fan :) -- 12.116.162.162 20:33, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

OMG thats weird but funny! I totally remember that. I like that movie. You know, somebody is going to freakout when they see all these heated IP edits. We should probably just get accounts ;D