Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hevstäf

Hevstäf

Hevstäf (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

There is absolutely no record about the existence of this village, google shows nothing, maps of Czech Republic show nothing, there is no reference anywhere, even the transportation planner (idos.cz) doesn't know this place and I am pretty sure that town with 2,314 must have record and must be on the map (even smallers are). I think this is a pretty fine hoax. ≈Tulkolahten≈^≈talk≈ 16:14, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Delete unless author or another fellow wikipedian provide reliable sources. ≈Tulkolahten≈^≈talk≈ 16:18, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

• No evidence?- this is a pretty old article, has no clean up or past discussion occurred? What is the evidence this is a hoax, as opposed to badly referenced? Unless someone has good evidence, this is way too early for deletion.- keep122.148.218.27 16:23, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Old article means nothing, there is no reference and it is not up the nominators or those who doubt to provide references. Provide reference that this town exists. Provide at least one official link with the reference, place on the map (maps.google.com, mapy.cz or some other). Also if you wish to participate I recommend you to create an account because IP votes has low or none weight. ≈Tulkolahten≈^≈talk≈ 16:27, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

• Delete I couldn't find anything trustworthy on the net, including Google books, for all the names mentioned, so it looks like a hoax to me. Certainly that doesn't prove it is one but the burden of proof lies with those who claimed it existed. Sciurinæ 16:34, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
• Comment waiting to make up my mind - Neither of the websites cited, www.hevstaf.info and www.hevstaf.cz, exist (the former is a spam repository, while the latter simply does not exist). Things smell. Moreover, and I know this in itself would not mean anything, the article appears to have had a long gestation as a user page. Goochelaar 16:36, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

There were only two editors H (talk · contribs) and Zebraic (talk · contribs) the rest edits are replacements of Infobox, maintenance of bots and templates changes with no relation to the content of the article. H, the original author seems to be inactive for longer period and Zebraic seems to be active, so I posted info about this AfD to his talk page, waiting what he will bring here. ≈Tulkolahten≈^≈talk≈ 16:40, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Are you sure H was the original author? His first edit says "moved here". Zagalejo^^^ 16:47, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

I am not sure what was the original place but starter here is him. Every town, city and even the smallest village is on the map here, so I can't believe this exists without any record anywhere. ≈Tulkolahten≈^≈talk≈ 16:56, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Here's the context: User:Zebraic started it as his "first article" on his own User page. Few days later, H proposed to move it to its own sub-page instead and few minutes later did so (I don't think H plays any role here except for that). Some days later, Zebraic moved it into the article space but has kept a version, User:Zebraic/Hevstäf. He also created Image:Hevstafonthemap.jpg, Image:Hevstafi-coatofarmskavka.png and Image:Hevstaf Coatofarms-w-kavka.png. Sciurinæ 17:43, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

• Comment I found the Dubs article on JSTOR. Skimming through it, I couldn't find any mention of Hevstaf or Hevstadt, although someone else might want to double check. Zagalejo^^^ 16:45, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
• Comment I also recommend to delete coat of arms of this city, it doesn't look like a real coat of arms. See the different version here [1]. ≈Tulkolahten≈^≈talk≈ 17:18, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

• Keep First, I have to apologize to anyone who has gotten involved in this "deletion" proposal, because it is not my intent to waste anyone's time. There are several things to consider about this article. First off this that [www.hevstaf.info] is more than a repository for spam; there's actual information there, and some tiny landscape photos. I suppose you must scroll down a bit to see past those horrid advertisements; the page was clearer when I first referenced it. Here's an excerpt from one of the links on the page, the link labeled zdroj informací (Which I believe means "information source"? Not sure.): "First written record comes from around 900 AD from court of Spyhtinev II, of Premyslids. However, folk of this region (not Region OFFICIAL, kraj) and archeological evidence shows that, if not in name, than in spirit has Hevstäf existed since beginning of the european history." This page is more than a spam repository; I feel it's a legitimate source. If you guys feel otherwise, there's nothing I can do about that. As for www.hevstaf.cz, I don't know. I know this bit looks bad, but I never noticed that it is gone. If you like, we may remove that source (although I never referenced it). I can't prove anything in regards to that site, but please believe me when I say, it was there when I began creating this entry.

Second: I am the only editor on this article? I suppose I am--I watch many of my contributions, and have seen little contributed to this article outside of my own edits. I am certainly the original creator for it. It strikes me as strange that I was the only one who ever really edited this article, but seeing as it pertains to a small town in the Czech Republic, it is understandable. As the only editor of this article, I can only defend myself, because, if it is a hoax, then it is a well-done hoax of which I was not aware. What I mean is, if it is a hoax, it exists independently and prior to this article, and I have merely been an unaware vehicle for its propagation in creating this article. If Hevstäf does not exist in any capacity (which at this point becomes an infinitely difficult thing to prove, and brings up more questions than it answers), then the "hoax" is severely, severely elaborate.

Third: Since I am the "sole author" of the article, I know the burden of proof lies on me. Has anyone looked up the books/articles I have referenced? Please look at these books: # Haywood, John (2005). Historical Atlas of Ancient Civilizations. London: Penguin Books, Ltd., 90-91. ISBN 0-141-01448-2.

1. ^ Dubs, Homer H. (1941). "The misleading nature of Leibniz's Monadology". Philosophical Review 50 (5): 508-516. Cornell University. DOI:10.2307/2180622. ASIN B0007K0T9U. The town is mentioned in both. That should be enough to count as "verifiable".

Fourth: Again, as the "sole author", I'm very much aware of the implications of a hoaxed entry allegation. Please look at my contributions to Wikipedia. I am not the most active member, certainly, but I have made a considerable number of edits, none of which are hoaxes. Furthermore, please consider what I, or anyone, would hope to gain in creating a hoax such as the one you suspect is Hevstäf. I don't see it. What the Hell would the point be of such a hoax? And if I'm the "hoaxer", where are my other hoaxes? I suppose that that is a bit peripheral to the argument at hand. I just ask kindly that you consider it, because I fear that my user account and character are going to come directly under fire because of this.

Fifth: As I said on my talk page, I have visited the town. That counts as nothing, I know, so I implore those who live near the coordinates to go visit the map coordinates and see what you see. What you should see is a town there.

Sixth: The coat of arms image was originally created by; I had drawn it in my field book, and recreated it from my visit. The site, www.hevstaf.info, has more to say about the coat-of-arms and what it means (look in its gallery). I also created the map, from a public domain map of the Czech republic here on Wikipedia. By "created", I mean all that I did was put a little dot indicating the location of Hevstäf on a pre-created map of the Czech Republic. I did this for obvious reasons: To lend a visual aid to anyone who wanted to know where the town was. Many of these articles on little towns such as this have maps like this one! I don't deny any of this! But I thought that I had adequately referenced my sources. Zebraic 19:25, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

• As I said above, I have access to the Dubs article, and I don't see the town mentioned anywhere. Are you sure that's the correct article? Zagalejo^^^ 19:55, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

• Delete. No evidence, very probably a hoax revealed after long time. References about villages in the Czech Republic with the population of 50 persons are easily found on the internet. This "town" has more than 2,000 inhabitants and no evidence. Also no single mention in The Misleading Nature of Leibniz's Monadology which author cites. I have this article in PDF and can send to interested users. - Darwinek 20:01, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
• Suggestion: Zagalejo -- This article, unfortunately, has sourcing issues. I would suggest that, if you are attached to this article, you userify it and search for sources. - Che Nuevara 20:05, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Is this intended for Zebraic? Zagalejo^^^ 20:35, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

It looks as though it is intended for me. I can userify this if it gets out of hand. My problem here is that people would rather merely delete this instead of allowing me to userify it. They aren't looking at all the sources I've stated. The one source that you claim is wrong is not the original hard copy, but a PDF. The [www.hevstaf.info] is shown to contain more information on the town then many other "sources" used in many other Wiki articles I've seen. Zebraic 20:57, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

• Eradicate per WP:HOAX.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  20:33, 14 October 2007 (UTC)