Talk:Burt Reynolds

GA fail

As it stands, most of the article reads like a list of his film roles, but with a bit of prose. Not very comprehensive. You need to do a lot more research with those external links at the bottom to have this reach GA level. Alientraveller 17:13, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Turd Fergeson

Nick Zavarella, who is huge fan a mr. reynolds changed his name to turd fergeson in honor of mr. reynolds nick name on celbrity jeopardy —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tjsap21 (talk • contribs) 00:01, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Reynolds' ancestry

I've corrected the mention about his Italian ancestry, citing a full-length 1982 book biography (Streebeck, Nancy (1982). The Films of Burt Reynolds. Secaucus, N.J.: Citadel Press, 11-12. ISBN0-8065-0785-3). It seems to explain how this misconception about him being Italian started: "[his] best pals were primarily the sons of fishermen along the canal, and most of them were Italian. There was no need for the police chief's namesake to explain his own heritage. On one side of the family, a full-blooded Cherokee grandmother, wife of a forestry ranger, who gave birth to his father on a North Carolina reservation; on the other side of the family, grandparents and mother of pioneer WASP roots, raised in and around central Michigan. Behind "the new boy in town," Burt doted on the immediate attention extended by his waterfront playmaytes. They assumed that he was also Italian, and Burt never corrected them. Pretending to be Italian was Buddy Reynolds' first inkling that a person could be whatever he wanted by merely projecting characteristics of a particular kind. He was acting. He liked it." Mad Jack 21:12, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

I'd also ask of user User:Rogue Gremlin to comment on what he is reverting and why, as well as add to this particular discussion topic. Mad Jack 01:57, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Read the above discussions, as RogueGremlin mentioned (can't belive I'm defending him), we've been thru this before. And had got the site to a neutral state. Please stop! Lugnut215 20:39, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Lugnut215, there isn't any discussion above at all that supports the inclusion of his having Italian ancestry. The Italian thing is really the crux of my edit, because the Time article (which is over 30 years old) is the only reliable source that exists to support it. And there is a reliable source (a book biography with a credited author) that directed conflicts with it. I'd like to see if anyone has a copy of "My Life" (Reynolds' own book) and what he says about his ancestry in it. Mad Jack 05:50, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

LoL, exactly Lugnut, who would have ever thought we would be on the same side of a burt disagreement, not to mention the book he is citing is not available to the majority of wiki users. His italian heritage should stand as it has been hashed thru before. Also the total bull stuff on his father being a cowboy, before becoming a cop. One book does not take away his heritage.Rogue Gremlin 18:15, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't consider mentioning he is part Italian to be "neutral" or factual at all. There is a single reference for this. Yes, it's a reliable reference, but there is also a reliable reference that directly contradicts this, and that one was written about 10 years after the first one. Availability to Wikipedia users isn't really a factor - besides, I found this book at my local library, so it's not exactly that rare. Either both claims about his mother's ancestry should be in the article, or neither - so, for the time, I'll remove the mention of his mother's ancestry. Reynolds has written a book biography - "My Life" - in 1994. It is available to search through on Google Books [1]. I can not find a single mention of any Italian ancestry in searching this book on G Books, although Reynolds does state that his mother's maiden name was "Miller" and that her great-grandfather Charles fought in the Civil War, which makes it highly unlikely that he was of Italian descent. If anyone has a copy of the book and can offer any more of what he states about the matter, that would help. BTW, my other edits included removing the "height" and "notable roles" sections, because they've been deleted from the Template:Actor and no longer appear. Mad Jack 05:29, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

• • Just as a side to this discussion, myself and a few others have researched Burt's ancestry through a number of sources, and Census records bare out that his mother was NOT of Italian ancestry. No Italian surnames in her family going back to colonial times. However, Census records also conflict with the North Carolina info shown above. In all Census records, Burt's father was shown to have been born in Michigan. The only Burt/Burton Reynolds born in North Carolina was born roughly 20 years before Burt's father in 1888. Also, Burt's paternal grandmother was Effie M. Thompson. She was also born in Michigan and is listed in Census records as "W" for white. You can see some of these Census images in the "Burt's Website" section above. JSDA 06:09, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

A book available to be bought does NOT make it available to a majority of the public. You need to read up on those standards. It has to be available in a MAJORITY of libraries across the country. Which that book is NOT. And check your wiki facts, availability to wiki users is a factor.Rogue Gremlin 15:56, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

I will remove height and notable roles from the boxRogue Gremlin 15:59, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

"And check your wiki facts, availability to wiki users is a factor" - this does not seem to be stated in any policy page. Please read WP:Reliable sources and WP:Citing sources. There is nothing there about availability in "Majority of libraries" (and how would "majority" be established anyway?). It does state "In general, the most reliable sources are peer-reviewed journals and books published in university presses; university-level textbooks; magazines, journals, and books published by respected publishing houses; and mainstream newspapers". In this case, the publisher is Citadel Press, which according to its Wikipedia article, is a sub-section of Kensington Books, "the largest publisher in the United States that is not considered one of the six "major publishers"". So, once again, I am removing this from the article; I have no problem with stating nothing about his mother's ancestry if there are two conflicting sources about it. Next, it does not belong in the opening paragraph either way, see WP:MOSBIO - "Ethnicity should generally not be emphasized in the opening unless it is relevant to the subject's notability". What we seem to be doing is repeating what was almost certainly a mistake of Time magazine's from 36 years ago. Have you read Reynolds' autobiography? What does he state in it about the matter? Mad Jack 18:28, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

I will find the link to the policy on books. It was given to me when i used a book that was out of print and not avail in most libraries. And how to find out the libraries it is in is easy if you know how to use a computer.Rogue Gremlin 19:22, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

The book passes the WP:RS criteria of being published by a major publisher. Once again, you included this information in the header of the article as well, which WP:MOSBIO clearly states shouldn't be done. Also, be warry of WP:3RR - if someone reverts an article more than 3 times in the span of 24 hour, they may be subject to be blocked from editing for a time (this applies to both of us). Mad Jack 19:26, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

You have already reverted 3 times also read the 1st paragraph here. [2] it does not pass and will be reverted. There are 117,000 libraries in the U.S. the book is available in LESS than 1500.Rogue Gremlin 19:37, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Enough is enough

I have requested for a page protection notice for this page until this stuff above is resolved. FamicomJL 20:00, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

There is a few things he added that had long been agreed upon to leave out to keep this article in a NPOV, We agreed to leave out his father's middle name as there are several discrepencies, as to whether it is Leon or Milo. Also where his parents were born doesn't really belong here. Then a proper citation was removed of her italian heritage, to be replaced with a SUPPOSED citation of her not being part italian. Which is why the only thing that needs to be there are her parents names (minus his dad's middle name). not their lineage or places of birth.Rogue Gremlin 20:34, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

I've removed a couple of sentences here: [3]. If there's anything that was important and I shouldn't have removed, leave me a note on my talk page please. · AndonicO ^Talk 21:48, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

For the record, please note that the word "POV" doesn't apply to the topics we seem to be discussing - that someone's middle name is "Milo" or "Leon" or that someone is of Italian ancestry is either a fact, or it isn't a fact - it's not an opinion. I have no qualms about removing his father's middle name. I didn't know it was a topic of contention. I don't have a strong opinion about keeping or removing the places where his parents were born, although I do think the fact that his father was born on a Native American reservation is notable. There is nothing "SUPPOSED" about my citation, it passes WP:RS because it is a published, full-length book with a credited author and coming from a major publishing house, and I have followed all the steps in WP:Citing sources in placing a proper citation that includes all relevant information about the book, including the year, ISBN, and exact page numbers. Of course it passes WP:V because the information has been published in a reliable source ("books published by respected publishing houses"); whether or not a specific Wikipedia user can or can't immediately find a copy of the book is not relevant. I'm not sure how this library thing relates to anything - am I expected to make a list of all the libraries in the United States, find out which of them have a copy, and then calculate a percentage that may or may not pass User:Rogue Gremlin's criteria? It's a silly throwaway part of this discussion. Anyway, I proposed two things above in regards to the Italian issue:

1. Say nothing about his mother's ancestry at all in the article.

2. Consult Reynolds' full-length book autobiography to see what he says about his ancestry.Mad Jack 22:23, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for taking the time to look into things and correct them AndonicORogue Gremlin 01:52, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Unprotect?

I think it's safe to unprotect this page now, since Rogue Grelim has been blocked from editing for about three months, and I myself am perfectly content with the version that's currently there (under protection), so I plan to make no further edits to the article for a long time. Mad Jack 01:01, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

link to movie Heat 1986

some of the links on the table are not direct enough the movie heat links to the wiki page for "Heat" and not the movie "Heat (1986 film)" Samba pa ti 19:27, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for the notice! I made that change. NCurse _work 15:07, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Sockpuppet Warning

For anyone whoe doesn't know, the longterm disruptive user known as Rogue Gremlin has been banned indefinitely from Wikipedia for using many sockpuppet accounts abusively. This user also edited this article as Aladdin Zane, and that account has also been banned indefinitely. (See Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/Rogue Gremlin and Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/Aladdin Zane.)

Considering that this editor has believed for a long time that he owns this article, and he has no regard for other editors' opinions (something I have noticed reading this talk page and seeing his various edit wars in the edit history), I suspect he will be unable to leave this article alone and will create more sockpuppet accounts so he can continue to revert other users' edits. By doing so, he will violate WP:BAN#Evasion and enforcement and WP:SOCK#Circumventing policy.

In fact, he has already created User:TeaAreOhYouBeeElleEe for that purpose.

I hope now that this disruptive editor has been caught, we can start improving this article, and that any "controversial" edits by new/unregistered editors will be looked at closely as they could be this Rogue Gremlin aka Aladdin Zane avoiding his well-deserved lifetime ban. Crazysuit 00:47, 13 November 2007 (UTC)