Talk:Seasonal affective disorder

Treatment: Cognitive Therapy

i suggest to (re)ad the phrase

" In addition, recent studies of University of Vermont psychologist Kelly Rohan showed that cognitive therapy can relieve the symptoms of SAD. [17]"

this is important because people give only biological reasons and think they are stuck with their brain. it is often overlooked that sad patients profite from psychological help! (and there are studies that prove that)

I have suffered with SAD since my teenage years. I had no idea what the problem was but I did note that soon after autumnal equinox I would seem to have the sensation of a "sigh" stuck in my chest. It does not matter whether it happens to be a sunny day or cloudy day, it seems to be related to the suns angle in the sky, especially in the afternoon. My doctor started me on Zoloft and it made a HUGE difference. A little later I changed health plans and had to switch to Lexapro and that particular SSRI works even better than Zoloft. I don't care what anyone says about SSRI's, to me, they are simply a miracle drug. I am also a very good guitar player and singer who used to perform live. I haven't been able to play and sing in front of anyone for over 20 years but now I am very confident. Thank God for SSRI medications. The Vitamin D dificiency is an interesting Idea because I hate the taste of milk and NEVER drink it.

Surely is this caused by vitamin D deficiency? Crusadeonilliteracy 15:22, 11 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Most people (in first world countries at least) get their vitamin D`from fortified milk now, because we spend so little time in the sun.

Greyweather 20:24, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)

If we are going looking for a cause then the pineal is the most obvious candidate. There are direct links between the retina and the pineal and melatonin, a hormone produced in the pineal, is associated with SAD. --CloudSurfer 21:23, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I personally suffer from SAD and I honestly don't care what causes it. It runs in my family and although light therapy works a little it didn't have enough effect for me. I found something that works well for me, and that's medication. I am now on Lexapro, a SSRI, and it works wonders for me. I've found that Celexia also works but has more side-effects than lexapro. -- 11-12-2004

For me, the best cure is summer. --80.192.22.103 10:01, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

I've got something like the reverse, and I'll never understand why people get so happy in Summer when overheating is a constant threat making exercise nearly impossible, and the brightness making it impossible to see. I tend to get used to it, but when Winter rolls around there's a marked increase in overall joy and contentedness, as well as general activity.

Man, you are so right. Here in Texas, by the time late summer rolls around I have no desire at all to go anywhere or do anything -- even the constant hum of the air conditioning and its harsh dry air feel more oppressive than relieving. If I felt this way during winter, I could do light box or whatever, but us summer sufferers are just out of luck. Because as everyone knows, there ain't no cure for the summertime blues.

Rick Strom

"Musician Rick Strom has credited his most creative periods to SAD" I understand that this is just his opinion of which he is entitled to. However the statement does suggest the accompaniment of mania to this form of depression. Is it possible that during the summer months SAD suffers experience episodes of mania? Can anyone “shed some light” on this one for me?

yes! although this wiki article makes no mention of it, there does appear to be evidence of a "march madness" phenomenon, in which people (bipolar especially?) experience increased periods of hypo/mania starting in springtime each year. quick google result here check pubmed for more, and hopefully someone could/would update wiki article?

--Wedge 18:49, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

I just came in here from "What Links Here" after an edit to Strom's entry. The above is interesting, but I can shed some light on his comment: he makes terribly depressing music, that's actually what he's known for. I'm not a psychologist so I don't know if mania is a requirement for a creative period (or if true depression is a major hinderance), but to a layperson, having heard his output, the statement fits pretty well. Soviyet 03:00, 15 September 2006 (UTC

Likewise living in Australia in the driest state SA in the driest continent in the world can also drive a person "round the bend" just as much as British Winter time does to someone from the Northern Hemispere,imagine you where stuck with nothing but intolerable heat for 4 months Its ugly.

Seasonal Affective Disorder

I become very depressed in the autumn and have for some time wondered if I suffer from this disorder also. However, I also seem to become quite depressed during spring. Can anyone advise if this is a feature of the disorder. Veronica

Hi Veronica,(15 02 07)

I am diagnosed with SAD which is my only qualification to be able to talk about the subject. It is common for SAD symptoms to present from August through to May. Indeed if the condition is not diagnosed it's fair to say that the worse time for SAD's is usually between January and May. However, diagnosis of SAD is difficult. My advice would be to speak with your GP and keep an open mind. One of the best books you can read on this subject is Winter Blues by Norman Rosenthal. It really is a must read if you suffer with SAD.

Hope that helps Darrell Tw 16:27, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

SSRIs as a cure-all?

I see SSRIs being promoted as a cure-all, and I note that wikipedia now claims that they are helpful in controlling SAD. I know quite a number of people who suffer from SAD and all of them say that SSRIs were less than helpful. Now, anecdotes do not make data, but is there any convincing, independant studies to show that SSRIs have anything more than placebo effect on SAD? (perhaps placebo is the wrong word, I should say, "any more effective than taking a random brain scrambling compound")

Personally my experience with SSRIs was scary and ineffective and I wouldn't like someone to consider them unless none of the simpler and more believable techniques sufficed. njh 08:25, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

20% of all Swedes - reference?

"Doctors estimate that about 20% of all Swedes are affected, and it seems to be hereditary." - I'd like a reference for that. I mean, I'm Swedish, and sure, many are depressed, but 20%?? Well. Anyway, I'd like a reference, please. /skagedal^... 01:46, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

What the Wikipedian was trying to say was probably not that 20% of us (swedes) suffer from SAD, but that 20% feel some seasonal effects on their mood, most in a lighter way than the ones who suffer from SAD. I think this is called SubSAD, and not looked at as a disease. I'll try to find some references and change the text. Hallogallo 10:42, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

I happen to have a study about this, from which I quote:

"In the northern countries, there was a large and consistent decrease in activity, well-being and sociability during the winter, whereas in Saudi Arabia there was no significant variation between the different seasons. Fairly or very strong sadness was reported by 11 per cent of the working population in Sweden and England, but less than one per cent in Saudi Arabia. The symtoms became aggravated for individuals working in dark environments, whereas individuals situated less than two meters from a window benefited from the natural daylight diring fall and spring."

R Küller, S G Ballal, T Laike, B Mikellides "Shortness of daylight as a reason for fatigue and sadness - a cross-cultural comparison" Proceedings CIE 24th Session, Warsaw 1999, vol 1, part 2, pp 291-294.

Hope this helps clarify the issue.

Lorielle 03:44, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

ways to make sure this is it?

This sounds easy to be used as an excuse for people that simply like summers better. Until 18-24 years of age most people relate summer with "total freedom" and gaming because most schools shut down, let alone most workers get their longest vacation in summers. So, I'm concerned SAD may be used to hide other reasons of depression without a certain diagnosis. --161.76.99.106 14:56, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

--Is Diabetes just an excuse to get out of eating foods you don't like? Cancer an excuse to go for that bald look (through chemotherapy) you've always wanted without your friends making fun of you? I suppose mental retardation is just an excuse to get out of Calculus class, as well. Your argument, while I can see where you might get this idea from, is not valid.

Or, you could read the topic that user put this under. If it didn't believe in SAD, why would it want to make sure that SAD "is it"? It sounds like the question wasn't "why are you all using this as an excuse to...something," but rather, "how do you tell if someone actually has SAD". That presupposes that SAD is for real. It's a perfectly valid question. I also fail to see how suggesting that another form of depression could look like SAD is supposed to be equivalent to saying that SAD is fictitious. If you have a non-seasonal depression, and you've been trained your entire life to think of summer as a good time and winter as a bad one, don't you suppose it's likely that your depression will seem seasonal at first glance? It may or may not happen in practice, but it's a question that makes sense to ask. I see nothing to be defensive about. --67.110.213.253 11:07, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

SAD

Does anyone else chuckle every time they read the acronym SAD? Could there be a more appropriate acronym for a type of depression? Xyzzyva 14:56, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

It's called a backronym. If the pineal is involved it is not the sole culprit in such a complicated system; unfortunately, though, very few studies have been performed on blind SAD-sufferers). The pineal is known to be stimulated directly by the retina, but what other stimuli can affect it? DrMorelos 02:10, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

I think its just proof that the higher ups who name things are a bunch of fucking retards, as a result, i don't really take this thing seriously..although im in no doubt that people suffer, its hard to take it seriously when professionals clearly don't 'oh you're depressed? oh you've just got SAD!! Get it? hehee! oh we are SO funny! cheer up sunshine, its only january!' They might as well call it 'crybaby disorder' or 'a bad case of the wahs' to make it sound less credible.

Once again, i'm not saying it doesn't exist, i'm just saying its possibly the stupidly named condition in the world. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.154.175.194 ([[User talk:--81.154.175.194 19:41, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

new topic: Research

i suggest adding a subtopic Research. There are a lot of different things going on. research on the betablocker propanolol (done by NIMH) as a medication for sad. There is also a study that shows the benefit of taking melatonin for s.a.d. people to reset theyre inner bodyclock. studies of the NIMH also show the benefit of "negative air ionization". as far as i know studies of the NIMH are quite serious, but i am not from the usa. if you want to, i can post here the links to these studies. but my english is not good enogh to write an article (but for sure i will translate it in german, maybe later on also in french and spanish.

as far as i know natalie imbruglia ("torn") suffered also under sad while she lived in england to do recordings for several years. thank you

new topic: symptoms

sad has very differnet symptoms than a "normal" depression. specially the carbohydrates "craving". in a normal depression you loose appettite. important is also that usually the worst month are december and january, the best beetween juin and august.

there is a sad variation in which the summer is depression linked and the winter is depression free.

maybe theres is also the option to have a topic: what kind of symptoms you must have bee be diagnosed with sad: at least 3(or 4?) month of absence of symptoms during the year. saisonal depression must occure during 3 years . the number of saisonal depression has to be higher than the number of "normal"depression. saisonal depression are not linked saisonal changing in life: example:stress because of saisonal unemployment.

if somone is able is to help me improve this site i would be very happy, my english is very poor i know, but i would give you the links to this information.

i deleted a sentence

i deleted this sentence: "Others have shown 456-476 nanometer blue light to be effective." this claims only one producer of bright light lamps, new studies show no benefit of "blue enriched" light (and it is seems also to be dangerous for the eyes)

Good. The same also goes for the claims by manufacturers of "full-spectrum" fluorescents for treatment of SAD. This whole "full-spectrum" fad seems to be pretty much a hoax, at least when it comes to SAD treatment. It all started as a misinterpretation of an incorrectly performed study by Rosenthal, 1984, where cool, bright "full-spectrum" fluorescent light was compared with warm, dim incandescent light and was found to be more effective. However, the effect has later been found to be due to the higher luminance and not to the cooler color of the FSFL.

Ref: McColl, S.L. & Veitch, J.A. (2001), "Full-spectrum fluorescent lighting: a review of its effect on physiology and health,” Psychological Medicine 31: 949-964.'[1]'

Lorielle 04:16, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

SAD - man Im a britt 26 years old, during my teen years i suffered with sevear winter blues, problems that i could deal with all year became insurmountable. when i was 23 i finally made the link between seasons and my mood and found that other people i knew felt similar symptoms but not to the extent that i did. One year i used st johns wort, this worked well but i'm not keen on taking pills everyday and found that they took about 2-weeks to take effect. Now I use sunbeds, and can feel my mood lift within a couple of days, i know there is health problems related to sunbeds but it beats wonedring through 4 months feeling tearful and having no energy. I would like to know if anyone has any idea why people should suffer from SAD, i joke that we should be hybernating, but really i do feel like i could sleep till spring, and it would make the lives of them closest to me easier. lol

I personally don't think we who live in the north are meant be as active during the winter as in the summer time. Up until only 100 or so years ago, we were farmers and would spend most of the winter indoors (except for feeding & milking our cows and perhaps doing the occasional logging & wood-chopping). I personally don't get depressed during winter but I definitely become more introvert and tired. I only feel active and social during summer and wouldn't mind hibernating until May.

Lorielle 04:16, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Negative Ion Therapy

The part about Ion therapy sounds like pseudoscience to me. Anybody else have the scoop?

I didn't believe it at first either, but apparently its the real deal. I know because I work in a lab with one of the PhDs on those papers. She explained to me that man-made environments such as the interiors of buildings often have an excess of positive ions while natural environments such as beaches and waterfalls often have an abundance of negative ions. However, I am still waiting for a convincing proposal for the mechanism of action of the negative ions. Nathanaver 22:36, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

I too have read into a lot of studies done on this subject...it, at first, seems like some kind of preschool magical idea dreamed up by Sharper Image. Apparently not...although I can't figure what effect negative ions would have on the body, it seems to actually work against the symptoms of Seasonal Affective Disorder. Weird, I agree, but true. Obviously more work needs to be done do find out why and how this works, though, and until then I doubt this treatment method will receive much credit.

Hi Nathansaver,

I am diagnosed with SAD and that's the only qualification I have to talk upon the subject. Recently I stumbled upon the negative ion therapy thoughts and tried them out. I have a negative ion "quizmo" next to my bed. I have to say I feel it has been of some help and my sleep has improved. I don't see it as front line in my war with my condition. I've noticed I always prefer to sit in my car if the air-conditioning is on. Does this have any bearing on negative ions? My other weapons of war are a Dawn Simulator, Anti-depressants at a dose of 10mg of Cipralex per day, bright light therapy and simply the knowledge that when I feel low the feeling will abate and go.

I wouldn't be surprised if within the next 12 months Dawn Simulators are made available with negative ion generators built in. I've also noticed that keeping the bedroom temperature above 12 degrees helps too. I don't tolerate the cold too well, but that could be middle age coming on :-)Darrell Tw 16:44, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

This is a bit beyond my area of expertise but I would actually expect air conditioners to deplete the level of negative ions because they reduce the humidity. Of course there are many factors that go into determining mood, not the least of which is body temperature, so maybe the air conditioner helps with thermoregulation?

I'm happy to see you have so many tools to use against SAD, keep it up! Nathanaver 15:18, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Summer SAD

I am a summer SAD sufferer. So during summer, I have to find places that there are not a lot of natural sun and the temperature never climbs above 25 degrees Celsius. Though my summer SAD has more things to consider than sunlight and the heat, like feeling lonely because of summer holidays. That is easier to fix than the weather, but basically, that's the reason I learn to skate so I can stay away from the sun.

Vitamin D dificiency??????

winter in finland= little sun little sun = low vitamin D low vitamin D = depression Esmehwp 18:12, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

WP:OR without a source WLU 18:17, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

External Links

On what basis are the external links being maintained? There seems to be considerable bias towards one particular retailer at the expense of providing further information for readers. 81.149.220.28 12:44, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Links to sites that just exist to sell a product should be deleted. Links that provide or summarize information should be kept. See WP:EL for more info. What site are you referring to? WLU 14:39, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

OutsideIn provide little further information on SAD than what is provided here, other than their support forum which would make a more relevant link. The BriteBox website link has been deleted despite providing more relevant further information. Would you advise linking specifically to a page within the site with this information, or to the home page? 81.149.220.28 10:01, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Good point, removed. The forum makes it less useful as an EL, not more. Both are out, unless Britebox has a heavily referenced page somewhere within. Even then it's a stretch. WLU 10:50, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Would you consider this study on Seasonal Affective Disorder to meet that criteria? 81.149.220.28 11:29, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Not as is - it's not in a peer-reveiwed journal, it's published on a company website. It fails as a WP:RS. Were it published in a peer-reveiewed scientific journal and re-published on-line, the original journal citation would work. If you can find an alternate citation of the same study, it might work. WLU 23:58, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Reverse Seasonal Effective Disorder

I seem to suffer from this, and there is hardly any mention of it in the article. shouldnt there be a little bit more, or possibly its own article? The Umbrella Corporation 01:51, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

SAD and Vitamin D

New information is available regarding the complex interaction between Vitamin D and body tissues. ("Cell Defenses and the Sunshine Vitamin", L. E. Tavera-Mendoza & J. H. White, Scientific American, November 2007, http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa006&colID=1&articleID=8B8ACB9D-E7F2-99DF-35E10D1D3B2F1E59)

The biologically active form of Vitamin D (1,25D) is known to regulate over 1000 different genes and at least a dozen tissues and cell types. I do not doubt that at some point 1,25D will be linked directly with serotonin production and/or production of other chemicals influencing mood. I recommend that those who live in northern latitudes take supplemental Vitamin D3 (~1000 IUs/day) in the Jan-Mar time frame! Dave 16:07, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Lack of Seasonal Mood Change in the Icelandic Population: Results of a Cross-Sectional Study

[[2]] Maybe this should be included om the part about SAD in scandinavia