Talk:New World Order conspiracy theory

Archive 1 - 2006

there is a section about ideologies on the New world order. It only lists a single ideology that of the new age movement. I think this is rather one sided and the minority view. someone should add the ideology that the New world order is negative in nature.thanks

Facts vs. Theories

I propose that any verifiable facts in this article (i.e. not homepages or conspiracy pages found from Google) be moved to the main New World Order article. In my research, I've found much of this article to be undeniably true, thus not theory. Of course anything with barcodes, extraterrestrials, freemasonry, and such should stay here. Examples of items that can be moved would be references on the aims of the Council on Foreign Relations and Trilateral Commission (since transcripts of such exist from their meetings and on their websites), some of the books by prominent authors, references to a world economy and international treaties. The main NWO article is greatly lacking in all these areas. Geekrecon 10:23, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Quotes

The quotes are a nice read but anyone know if they're all true and verified? Because usually cool quotes are distorted, misatributed or just totally false. Falsifying and distorting quotes is pretty common, notice it in some of Zedong's books too. So somekind of confirmation would be nice.

I'm checking the references....

In my opinion this article is a good start on the subject.

Keep it imo.

peace Chris

I think the article provides a good overview to what would generally be considered a fringe cultural phenomenon. The external links might be very POV, but I think you're right that they're appropriate in this context, and the article makes it clear that this is a heavily POV subject. Any reasonably critical eye should be able to discern this. I think the article strikes a good balance between the extremes of completely marginalizing the cultural context and giving it credulous coverage. Definitely a good start. --SamClayton 09:35, 11 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I have been speaking to some fenatics on both sides of the fence on this issue, and the documentation here, appears to be of balance between the two. Well fenced. I say keep the article. It appears appropriate in context to the volatility of the issue.

Rigel

I think overall the article does an adequate job of presenting both sides, but I would like to see sources for (or removal of) the article linking N.W.O. conspiracy theories to nationalism. That seems like POV to me, and I would like to see a source in writing that shows that there is a psychological link between believing in a N.W.O. conspiracy theory and being a nationalist/isolationist. --Anonymous

It seems like a "centrist" nationalist position. In particular, the idea that the left and right, or the Left and the Capitalist ideologues, are just manipulated pawns for the NWO seems very centrist. The anti-NWO arguments and web pages are very nationalistic, and have a reactionary feel. The fact that they label the threat the "New" probably contributes to this feeling. It seems to be opposed to modernity -- that is, they are opposed to capitalist progress as well as socialist progress, and want things not to change.

Also, there's a big problem with the paragraph asserting that one group thinks the NWO are "big capitalists". It sounds like it's talking about Marxists, leftists, or socialists, but it's not. It should point out that these people aren't necessarily against "capitalism", but against large corporations that threaten soverignty. Traditional Marxists, leftists, and socialists don't use the term NWO at all. They use terms like "the logic of capital," "rationalization," "capitalism," "modern," "class," "superstructure," and "bourgeoisie." When they talk about a global system that's spreading, overpowering governments, destroying sovereignty, and changing nationalism, they call it "capitalism." When they refer to the present, most advanced form of capitalism, they use the term "imperialism." I think most would consider the term NWO to be reactionary, and not very well thought out. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.245.193.86 (talk) 10:10, 18 March 2007 (UTC).

I added some non absoulte mays and might's as abosoute statements are easy to argue with first. And NOT ALL conspirists are real conspirists. Some may be in it for the money selling tapes and are sensationaling certain events and do not believe their own B.S. To call this a finge phenomenon is to ignor all the pollsters results that show for instance, spikes in those that do not believe the official version of Sept. 11 2001 events. How many hours of Discovery channel presentations constitute conspiacy theory? The MEN who killed Kennedy to name one example Conspiracy of Silence a suppessed documentry to name another. Carl Cameron's suppresed 5 part Fox News piece on the "Weehawkin Five" and Israeli spys associated with the events of 911. then there is the whole body of stuff at: *http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_proven_conspiracies

So you believe things on the internet?

No offense, but I can't believe anyone would list websites they found in a Google/Yahoo (and any other search engine) as a credible source. Most humans are stupid. The internet is for everyone, and is made by everyone. Therfore I don't believe anything I read on the internet unless it is observed fact, or about science and math.

Besides, how do you people even KNOW that the NWO would be a unitary government? What if it's a democracy. Besides the NWO would fall apart in a matter of years since at this time in history not many people are ready to be led by a world government, which is why nobody really listens to the UN.

So i'm asking for permission to add to the top of this article a notice saying people need to descide these things for themselves, and should not get their idea's off the internet. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Lithium500 (talk • contribs) 03:28, 7 January 2007 (UTC).

So do you believe things on the television? At least where I live (Brazil), the most credible source of information are internet radios, blogs and independent news sites, since all newspapers and TV are biased and serve the current people in power, by manipulation or simply deny of information. Your argument, "the internet is for everyone, and is made by everyone", is the strongest point of internet. Or you can always watch your TV and see they treating you like an idiot and pushing their lies through your throat. 200.100.53.4 11:34, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Given the ephemeral nature of Wikipedia articles (except, I suppose, the ones that are protected), it would be rather redundant to put such a notice up. After all, articles are designed to be neutral so that readers can do just as you suggest. Although the "getting ideas off the internet" thing would probably mean Wikipedia would need to shut down entirely... since it's on the Internet and such. But anyway, a notice of "Decide this for yourself and don't get your ideas from here" would be hardly neutral. .V. -- (^Talk_Email) 02:34, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

• I agree. Humans are stupid. And I hate most conspiracies. The US government destroying the Twin Towers? Please. If they were behind it, then God help us, for the Apocalypse is at hand. As for this New World Order, well, it probably would be a dictatorship. A violent takeover, installing a ruler with absolute power, no chance of a democracy. Power, unlimited power, would be granted to the ruler of this abominable form of government.

The internet is the most reliable source. The TV is controlled by the media which is controlled by the NWO. Believe it or not that's where its come to. You bet the NWO was behind the Twin Towers. Think steal buildings that were made to be hit by one and maybe two planes crashes would collapse? No way. The Empire State Building was hit by a B-25 bomber after WWII and it didn't collapse. What about building 7? What about the Pentagon? Think an airliner could fly into that building at that speed at a few feet off the ground? The NWO is definitely not a democracy. The NWO is not going to fall apart for a while. What their big plot, in the long run, is to confiscate all fire arms. I'm an American, and we have the right to bear arms. If they confiscate our arms, we would be helpless against them. I think what they would try to do is first have everyone register their firearms. If they don't do that then they'll be arrested. That is not to bad, just register you gun. Think. After that they say everyone who has a gun has to get a microchip in their gun. Well, people don't want to be against the government, so, they'll just do it. At least the majority will. Then, one by one they take our guns away. Of course, all of this takes time and they need something like the Twin Towers to have people want to be protected by the gov. THe government says if you want protection, you just have to give alittle of your rights. The NWO wants to controll the people. In May, the National I.D. card is coming. You have to give your fingerprint in order to drive! Why? More controll. Little by little their winning. For most people, that's a lot to think. They have alot of trust in their government. You can see the NWO working at every corner. They use terrorism as a tool. Osama Bin Laden was trained by the CIA to fight the Russians during the Cold War! What were the Bushs' doing during 9/11? Having dinner with the Bin Ladens. What about the mayor of NY, who said a few hours before the planes struck the Twin Towers to his "cabinet" to get out, the towers are coming down. What about eye witness that said they heard explosions in the Twin Towers before the plane struck? I know that's alot to swallow. That's just one tiny percentage that I told you about the NWO. There's a lot more. To learn more about the NWO just go on YouTube and type Alex Jones, Police State 2007, New World Order Alex Jones, etc. Don't let them take away your liberties!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tread not (talk • contribs) 21:59, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Federalism

I'm not any kind of expert on this subject. I did notice that the word "federalism" was used to describe the tradional "world order" where there are multiple independent nations. As an American I have only heard the word "federalism" used to describe the system we have in the United States where there the states have some powers under a central national government. I tend to think that the word "federalism" is misused in the introduction to this article. Is there someone who knows more about this question? Thanks. Steve Dufour 00:49, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Federalism has a specific meaning when it comes to US politics, but it also has the more general meaning of "A system of government in which power is divided between a central authority and constituent political units." [[1]]. .V. _[Talk|Email] 01:23, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

If I understand you correctly, it would not be correct to say that the world is under a system of federalism since there is no central authority. I guess you could count the United Nations, but I don't think its authority can be compared to the authority of the US government over the states. Steve Dufour 04:11, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

You are very much correct. .V. _[Talk|Email] 04:52, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Is this an American conspiracy?

"Although the UN is usually a central figure in most theories". Is it? Where? In America perhaps because all conspiracies must really be due to those pesky foreigners. In other parts of the world you could change the 'N' to an 'S' to identify the main character in conspiracy theories.

Regards,

George.

194.46.176.193 23:07, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Dear fellow readers: I changed the material. The statement that the UN is "usually a central figure in most theories" is certainly unsourced and probably could not be verified for purposes of Wikipedia. You could say that "such and such a commentator says that the UN is usually a central figure in most theories" or something like that, if you could find a source for that. Famspear 23:15, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Non-NPOV and Non-Verified

This article contains many one-sided and non-verified claims. Do others agree? If so, we should add the appropriate Wiki tags.--P Todd 01:43, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure I see a great deal of POV, but there are some unverified claims. Though it seems it would be better to add references than just tag them. Many of them say something to the extent of "Theorists allege..." and then they don't back it up. However, I'm pretty sure they they do allege what they claim to allege, so it shouldn't be too much of a hunt to find sources. I'll look into that. .V. _[Talk|Email] 11:29, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Needs protection

The kooks are invading. THis article needs a subjective mind to go through it and clean up the non-encyclopedic stuff the tinfoil hat types have added. It should also perhaps be locked to anonymous edits and/or watched.

The superkooks like to 'stay off the grid' and won't DARE register an account to pollute this article with their paranoid ramblings! 209.195.72.34 19:36, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

IDIOTS! Lets try to be opened minded here. You call these people kooks, because they don't believe everything that is told to them. You say this article needs a subjective mind to "go through it and clean up". What you mean is censor it. Even if it is a bunch of BS, read through that and figure it out for yourself. What you are suggesting is even worse. Lets "clean it up" and keep the information generic without questioning. That's what you suggest! If that's your idea of people, I would rather be a kook than a blind follower. Also, what you are suggesting is exactly why people feel there are conspiracy theories. Because there are so many people out there that don't want to question things, especially if they sound "kooky". Wake up to reality and realize that they don't teach everything to you in school. Just like Japanese textbooks conveniently leave out the Rape of Nanjing, our textbooks leave plenty out too. People in power have the goal of maintaining that power. That is true in every society, in every part of the world, at anytime in history. Until everyone will at least look into and think about kooky ideas, we will continue to live in ignorance. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.115.114.184 (talk) 07:48, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Incoherent list of events

"Fodder will have to touch himself upon request. Adams will have his life thrown away by the corporations he is so scared of."

What do these mean? Where is the author getting his information? These should be modified, cited, or removed.

64.80.108.53 20:04, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Also... "Deceleration Of Interdependence" Bizarre, kooky, but so poetically awesome! Can't we just allow this one article to be overun by the endearing nutjobs? So what if the CIA ate their dog. So what if UPC codes are obviously the Mark of the Beast? How cool is it that the reptillian aliens from inside the hollow Earth plotting with the Illuminati to take over the world in preparation for the Anti-Christ could have also conspired to make inventory control so much easier for Supermarkets?

corporations vs workers (whether true or false) is a common leftist/rightist point of view, not a conspiracy theory

i removed the following from the article:

• Some people are opposed to the New World Order because they see it as being run by the big capitalist plutocrats such as David Rockefeller, founder of the Trilateral Commission. It is claimed that the real purpose of globalization (the economic aspect of the New World Order) is to enable the big capitalists who run the transnational corporations to exploit the workers to the maxiumum possible extent and thus gain more profits for themselves.

While the Trilateral Commission may be rather secretive, the fact that it's composed of about 300 or so of the world's most powerful businessmen, politicians, academics and some labor and NGO leaders makes it rather reasonable that as an institution, it probably has significant effects on global decision-making. This is a common sense claim of basic human psychology and the social sciences, not a conspiracy theory: make a regular habit of putting a bunch of 300 of the most powerful individuals in the world in a good place where they can talk together comfortably and off the record (with no journalists recording or secretaries making official records) and it's fairly likely that they will exchange useful information and ideas and plan things in their (and their organisations') common interest. Also, the claim that corporations, through the stock market and other mechanisms, aim to maximise their profits and thereby exploit workers is not a conspiracy theory, it's the foundation of the most widely used "theories" of economics. Whether or not it's a good thing is POV. Whether or not it's true or not depends on how true various "theories" of economics are. But a wrong theory of economics is not a conspiracy theory (unless it's focussed mostly on a small number of secretive individuals working together, but then it would not normally be called a theory of economics). Boud 20:49, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Let me get this straight. You removed this part of the article because it wasn't part of a conspiracy theory, because it is an obvious fact. So whenever someone brings in an article to prove a conspiracy, with something that is fact, you want to remove it! So you want to systematically keep these conspiracy theories just that. Instead of using the internet as a tool to figure out the truth. That seems like a brilliant idea! Obviously the main goal of all of these New World Order conspiracy theories is for the capitalist elites to take over an exploit the workers. Isn't this exactly what Marx talked about. So because we showed proof of this conspiracy, we take that proof out!?!? Wow, mind boggling how people can think they are so smart and are doing such great things. All you have to do is have a basic knowledge of Marx to know that for capitalism to work, it has to keep growing its markets, which would mean eventual global dominance. That is until the workers take over. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.115.114.184 (talk) 07:56, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Jewish Hitler

Removed the part that said Hitler was part jewish, since it's not proved and totally unsupported by any historian or biographer (except the conspiration theories nutjobs). - Thiago

201.78.163.207 00:00, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

bias

Page is bias, poorly written and needs a complete overhaul.

75.72.242.219 12:38, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

New World Order / North American Union Reference Information!

PLEASE HELP! to restore the North American Union article enough to get it returned to "article status".

I also posted George H.W. Bush's New World Order Speech for reference.

You can find additional info here:

GEORGE W. BUSH TO BE DICTATOR DURING UPCOMING PLANNED CATASTROPHIC EMERGENCY

Wisepiglet 22:40, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Does "See Also" have to be so long?

If you've noticed the "See Also" section, you would find that there is an incredibly long list of such "related articles". While I acknowledge that there are a few plausible ones such as "World government" and "Illuminati", some to be only remotely related or none at all, such as "Secularism", "Ecumenism", and "World Council of Churches". Others appear to just a smattering of various conspiracy theories, some of which may or may not have any relation to the topic at hand, such as "Creation-evolution controversy"... I think a clean-up might be imperative. Ariedartin JECJY ^Talk 18:13, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Quotes

The following quote (and possibly the subsequent quote) is not actaully Lincoln. It was atrributed to him in the 1870's; however, someone else actually wrote it. The words are too formal for Lincoln's style. Enthroned, endeavor, etc. “I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. As a result of the war, corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands, and the Republic is destroyed. I feel at this moment more anxiety for the safety of my country than ever before, even in the midst of war.” - Abraham Lincoln - In a letter written to William Elkin

Thomas Esques

Sherlock Holmes

The part about Sherlock Holmes should be removed as he was a fictional character in the books written by Conan Arthur Doyle, his opinion in a serious political debate is irrelevant because he never existed at all.

Invalid preposition. Why cannot fictional characters state a triusm? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.46.154.193 (talk) 16:15, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

George H.W Bush

In the speech that he gave to Congress in 1990 when he first mentioned the New World Order, it seems that he used the words "New World Order" by accident instead of "New Era", he blatantly corrects himself. This is very significant as no-one batted an eyelid regarding the usage of the phrase.

Too many quotes!

The quotes may be notable, famous, whatever-you-call-it, but nonetheless, too many. Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information, and these quotes are taking up about half (or more) of the article length. At the very least, please only put those which are evidently and unambiguously referring to the conspiracy - not simply a world government in general. Ariedartin JECJY ^Talk 12:59, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Question.

Isn't New World Order in latin, Novus Ordo Seclorum? If not, then I would like to know what the latin means under the pyramid on the back of the one dollar bill. Thank you very much. Amphitere

We have an article on Novus Ordo Seclorum that will answer your question!--Isotope23 ^talk 01:37, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

The phrase New World Order has its roots in the Latin phrases Annuit Cœptis, meaning "He has approved our beginnings," and Novus Ordo Seclorum meaning "A New Order of the Ages." However when translating the phrase New World Order back to latin it translates as Novus Ordo Mundi - Ne0Freedom 17:02, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Structural changes (and a few content additions)

Someone unsigned wrote this as a loose piece of text at the top of this discussion page:

there is a section about ideologies on the New world order. It only lists a single ideology that of the new age movement. I think this is rather one sided and the minority view. someone should add the ideology that the New world order is negative in nature.thanks

- and it got me involved in fixing up some structural problems with the page. I have moved the Timeline out of the Ideologies section, re-arranged the Ideologies with sub-heads rather than bulleted points (they were too complex and long for bullets), and have done the same with the section that covers theorized methods of implementation, titling each one and giving it sub-head status.

While at work on this task, some basic copy-editing tasks caught my atention, and my desire for completion led me to add a few more categories of implementation, but in general my work did not include writing new text or sourcing anything that was unsourced.

I hope this new structure meets people's needs. I will not likely be sticking around on this page or contributing heavily to it, so don't worry about my personal investment in the new format -- it's just what seemed most logical to me at the time.

Nameless Date Stamp 08:58, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Criticism

Where is the criticism for these theories? The way I see it, this conspiracy crap which is taking over YouTube with its Satanic Whores bullshit etc should positively be leaking with holes.200.105.222.177 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.105.222.177 (talk) 20:24, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

You'd probably be hard pressed to find legitimate, well sourced criticism of this for the same reason you won't find much in the way of scholarly response or criticism of the Flat Earth Society; these theories are generally recognized as ludicrous and not worth response.--Isotope23 ^talk 17:49, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Zionists does not equal Jewish

Section headed Antisemitic ideologies: Zionists as the enemy.

It states that Zionism is the same as the Jewish faith. This is both misleading and innacurate. Zionism is an idiological force that exists both inside and outside the Jewish faith. So Anti-Zionism is not the same as Antisemitism. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.46.154.193 (talk) 16:23, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

NPOV?

I would appreciate it if, whoever put the NPOV tag on this article, would supply specifics of what needs work. That is a necessity. Otherwise, I will remove the tag. Kwork 17:16, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

How come we have no article on the opposite of NWO, NWF (New World Freedom)? Amphitere 18:18, 17 October 2007 (UTC) "Quantum Future"

Wake Up America —Preceding unsigned comment added by Severin Moon (talk • contribs) 17:07, 22 October 2007 (UTC) HEY Wake up America and every one else with your head in the sand!!! Over 1400 radio and TV stations are controled by the elite, so you hear what they want you to hear, think about it. Example GE is the largest producer or bombs in the world and they also own NBC and MSNBC so on the subject on war will you hear good or bad things about the war? Quite simply they will "tickle your ears" with what it take to keep you thinking that the terrorists are out side the country and we need to kill em. 911 was an inside job, Bushes brother took out terrorist insurance on the trade center and made a woping $7.1 Billion on the attack. Please go to thetorrentchannel.com (one of many) and down load and view all the stuff that got pulled from the news so we the people couldn't see it. Do your home work, think about it if you were in control or had a business you would "advertise" any way you could for your business to succeed. Same with the new world order, the lie as needed to get the job done. Also the vera chip is coming out and will be implanteded into every person on earth. The united euro the new police state of America. As one dictator said the easiest way to enslave people is to make them think they are free, give them food, entertainment and keep them distracted from the trueth. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Severin Moon (talk • contribs) 17:04, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Games

I know next to nothing about global conspiracies, but I'm certain there's no need to mention professional wrestler Scott Hall by name, simply because he was in a stable named the New World Order. --Sakaki22 09:36, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Proposal for renaming

This article refers to the 'New World Order' conspiracy theory. Wikipedia policy says "article naming should prefer what the majority of English speakers would most easily recognize". This would appear to favour New World Order (conspiracy theory) as the name for the article, as it is a conspiracy theory held by a small fringe group who believe that there is in fact such a conspiracy. Moreover, naming the article on this conspiracy theory as New World Order (conspiracy) is inconsistent with our naming conflict guideline to "[c]hoose a descriptive name for an article that does not carry POV implications." New World Order (conspiracy) implies that there is in fact such a conspiracy, thus endorsing a POV, and a rather objectionable one at that. John Nevard 01:52, 15 November 2007 (UTC)