Talk:Elfen Lied

We don't really need three images for this article. I think just a description is fine, so we should keep just one.

• Image:Elfen_Lied_ep2_Vectors.jpg
• Image:Elfen_Lied_ep4_Lucy.jpg
• Image:Elfen_Lied_ep4_Nyuu.jpg

— Kieff | Talk 07:28, Dec 25, 2004 (UTC)

Hi Do we have a burning need not to have three images? They don't float down past the text, and they all illustrate something different. I wanted to show that Nyuu/Lucy is rendered differently when a different personality is dominant, and what the vectors look like. I think all three of the pictures add something. grendel|khan 09:51, 2004 Dec 25 (UTC)

Well, guess not. Let them there then. I fixed the images, btw.

Lyrics

The lyric to the opening theme song seems to be not original. [1] ← seems to indicate that the lyrics come from a different source. Also, the first part: "Os iusti meditabitur sapientiam, Et lingua eius loquetur indicium" seems to be Psalm 37:30 in Latin after some Google searching. Would be nice if someone could help identify where the lyric comes from (or maybe it's mentioned on the OST CD album credits). In an earlier edit, a reference to "Beatus Vir" was erased, but I'm not sure why. --69.214.227.51 09:36, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Update: apparently this guy seems to know much more what he's talking about → [2]

Update 2 by 69.214.227.51 19:06, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC): The original soundtrack album booklet states that Lilium was made just for the album (lyric and melody), which makes the one posting at the first link I gave a liar.

Update by PS4FA The various pieces from which the lyrics are drawn are apparently all to be found on the album 'Chant' by the monks of the Santo Domingo de Silos Monastery.

Elfen Lied (revision)

I moved this from my talk page, where Sir Louis made a comment about my removal of his comments.

I added a few other valid points to the sub-topics line of this definition, state what you feel was not objective about it. (?)

Objectivity is not the issue, but presenting one opinion as fact and no contrary opinions, or needlessly noting subjective appreciations. A copy of the paragraphs you modified, with bold indicating your changes/additions that I find objectionable:

-- BEGIN ---

Elfen Lied is unpleasant to watch. The morale, if there is one - deals with human evolution, which doesn't offer much room for character building, with the constant merry go round of shallow and senseless moments, and tragedy, brutality and resolve. The main drive of the dicloniuses is the propagation of their superior traits through the destruction of the human race. This homicidal drive manifests around the 3rd year of the diclonius's life. It seems that dicloniuses do not consider normal Homo sapiens "human", and most of the time they show a complete lack of empathy towards non-mutants.

The story also deals with the issues of psychological trauma and repressed memories, as well as moral insanity (psychopathy) as a result of absent unconditional, parental love.

-- END --

"Is unpleasant to watch", I'm sure you see this, is completely subjective. I don't find it pleasant to see little girls being torn apart, even if they're just animated characters, but I didn't Elfen Lied unpleasant (except in the same sense I found it "unpleasant" to watch Schindler's List, for example — also full of senseless killing). I see you've reverted my revert and inserted "can". Of course, objectively, anything "can be unpleasant to watch". But this is not the place for subjective appreciation, and the modal verb only barely masks the POV (it works as a weasel word).

Then also, "the morale - if there is one" makes it obvious that you don't think there's one, and that you think there should be a (constructive) morale. I'm wondering what your views are about human evolution, but I won't open that can of worms here.

Likewise, if you believe character building is lacking, state a source or discuss criticism here in this talk page with at least a few viewers. Compare Elfen Lied's character development with that of other anime/manga, with other similar stories, etc.

The "constant merry go round of..." is plainly personal POV and, if I may say so, reads like a movie trailer ad.

PS I just saw you changed that. Reads better, but go on.

Then, what is "moral insanity"? Does parental love have to be present and unconditional for people not to turn into psycopaths? And how does that follow from the series? If character building is so lacking, how can you analyze the behavior of characters and not only diagnose a mental disorder but also its cause? Again, I'd suggest to get some knowledgeable viewers and discuss the issue here.

Opinionated criticism can be found elsewhere. You are free to look for reviews and link to them from the External links section. You can even write a review yourself.

I'm reverting the article again. If you don't agree, I suggest requesting comments from other users before doing anything else. I understand you're new to WP and hope you don't take offence from my comments and opinions. That's what discussion pages are for.

It's OK to do multiple edits. You can sign your posts here using four tildes ~~~~.

--Pablo D. Flores 10:54, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

That was indeed opinionated, instead of making another revision, as this is my first go at highly interperative definitions, a few comments: The series does in fact touch on the link between dysocial psychopathy and parental influences, (note Nyu/Lucy's relationship to Kouta, Mariko and Nana's relationship to Kurama and their homicidal tendencies evaporating in his presence). This implies a historical - or at least predominantly historically (mistakenly attributed to ingrained instinct) rooted cause for their hatred of humans. Note that in episode 13, it is revealed that Lucy did in fact posess the ability to introspect and empathize all along - in other words, have a conscience.

As for "is unpleasant to watch". Well, this is of course, technically, subjective, but the nauseating, constant rollar-coaster of physical and psychological violence, tearful resolve, and odd quiet moments of reason and conversation between the characters deserves to be touched on as well. Done once, this is digestible, but it is constant throughout the series, and is genuinely nauseating. This is more of an observation about story direction and plot writing, rather than the actual themes and story themselves. It is very good sci-fi otherwise.

So, unless you feel I am somehow incorrect about any of this for inclusion into a definition, then I'd suggest having you write the revision making light of these things, or I can have a more dedicated go at it again.

- Louis