Talk:Southern American English

Be

I can't believe there is nothing in this article about words like "be". In the South, this word seems to be realized as [bəi] (like in Cockney). This applies to other words with /iː/ as well. 208.104.45.20 (talk) 20:37, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Under "phonology": "The nuclei of /i/ and /e/ relax and become less front." AJD (talk) 03:04, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

That wasn't very specific. I guess that's why I was confused. 208.104.45.20 (talk) 21:32, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Do you recommend a reword to address the confusing prose? — Ƶ§œš¹ _{[aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi]} 22:28, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

It's just my opinion. Maybe other people don't feel the same way. I just like to compare dialects. It helps me understand them better. 208.104.45.20 (talk) 01:36, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Im just very curious the map for the southern dialect in my opinion and many of my friends we are quite puzzled why Kentucky or Oklahoma is not fully included. yes kentucky may have been a border state but most kentuckians like (myself) & most northerners will tell you the whole state deserves to be in their from paducah kentucky to ashland kentucky is very southern to the core.June 19 2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Featherhawk 81 (talk • contribs) 23:13, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Coke

Okay guys, I seriously don't know why everyone seems to think Southerners call ever soda they drink "coke", but we don't. Nobody I've ever talked to from Louisiana (my home state) nor any of my friends from Alabama, Arkansas, or Mississippi have ever and don't know anyone who has ever reffered to anything besides Coke as Coke. We all either say "soda" or "soft drink." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.158.221.49 (talk) 22:17, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Maybe people think it because there's scholarly evidence published by linguists showing it. Check the reference. (And I certainly heard "coke" used to refer to any soft drink in Texas. In Georgia you can't tell because they don't drink anything but Coke there anyway.) —Angr ^{If you've written a quality article...} 22:58, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

References don't mean much when you've been an eyewitness yourself. If I saw a cow floating through the streets I would certainly start question gravity, I couldn't care how many books you threw at me. I'll reiterate what I said; I nor no one I know has ever referred to any soft drink other than Coke as Coke. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.158.221.49 (talk) 05:17, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Please read WP:NOR. References trump personal experience at Wikipedia. If you saw a cow floating through the streets, you would still not be entitled to change our article on Gravity in accordance with your personal observations. —Angr ^{If you've written a quality article...} 20:03, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

You realize how vehemently retarded that is? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.158.221.49 (talk) 06:42, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Not at all. It would be chaos if it were any other way. Your personal experience is that Southerners do not use "coke" as a genericized trademark for carbonated beverages in general; my personal experience is that we do. Someone else's personal experience might be that "coke" can be used for colas (Coke, Pepsi, RC Cola, Dr Pepper, etc.) but not for "clear" soft drinks like Sprite and 7-Up. So who's to say whose personal experience gets to be mentioned? We avoid the problem by not allowing personal experience to influence article content at all, but rather relying on published sources. —Angr ^{If you've written a quality article...} 06:56, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

I have done so all of my life. "Coke" is merely a soft drink. You still need to specify which flavor you want afterwards. This is in Southern Maryland and Central Virginia. CsikosLo (talk) 18:04, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

• Ditto. Everything's a Coke. Any canned, non-alcoholic, sweet beverage is a Coke. "What kind of coke do you want?" "Pepsi, please." And you want to know something real amazing? I know some Filipinos who say it's the same in the Philippines. In my opinion, that case is probably a result of the American Military presence there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jonlandrum (talk • contribs) 08:44, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Split SAE

I think we should split the Southern American English article into an academic rendition and a more popular rendition. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kirk.Hazen (talk • contribs) 11:59, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

For what purpose? Both would still be subject to Wikipedia's policies on Verifiability and No original research. —Angr ^{If you've written a quality article...} 12:51, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

For the purpose of collecting together topics which the general public would like to read about on to one page, and then collecting together topics more interesting to academics on another. Kirk.Hazen (talk) 19:54, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

See WP:FORK. What you're advocating sounds a lot like a POV fork to me. — Ƶ§œš¹ _{[aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi]} 22:05, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

As far as I know, Wikipedia never splits articles into academic and popular subject matter (excluding articles like Pop culture references to X). Aleta (Sing) 23:24, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

We have a few articles on extremely specialist subjects like quantum physics where there's a general-audience introduction article and an article for people who actually understand physics, but this article is hardly dense enough to require something like that. —Angr ^{If you've written a quality article...} 05:06, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Southern R-Colored Vowel

Southerners seem to pronounce their r-colored vowel more "heavily". I know "heavily" is not a good way to describe it, but I can't think of any other way to put it. It sounds similar to how they pronounce it in Ireland and the West Country of England. In my opinion, this is one of the most salient features of the dialect. I'm sure someone else here knows what I mean. 208.104.45.20 (talk) 02:14, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes, most Southerners whose ancestors came to America from Ireland, came from Ulster where people still use the strong R.In fact it's a salient aspect of the Northern Irish accent.Also many people from Derry and Tyrone speak very slow (a salient feature in Southern American English such as is spoken in Texas).Indeed there are many similarities between SAE and Northern Irish speech.06:52, 7 April 2008 (UTC)jeanne (talk)

The like Vowel

My ears tell me that the diphthong in words like like is often pronounced as [ɑɪ] in the South. 208.104.45.20 (talk) 02:31, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

It is. Many speakers do not monophthongize it to [a:] when it is followed by a voiceless consonant, for example. AJD (talk) 04:01, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

This article says the diphthong becomes [əɪ] before voiceless consonants. Maybe that is true for some speakers, but I here [ɑɪ] more often. 208.104.45.20 (talk) 20:26, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

What the article says is, in fact, that that happens for "some speakers". AJD (talk) 21:58, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

I am well aware of that. However, the article doesn't say [ɑɪ] occurs before voiceless consonants for "some speakers", does it? 208.104.45.20 (talk) 20:28, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Oh, you're right. I've added mention of that. AJD (talk) 19:57, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Furthermore, Labov makes no mention of "Canadian-style raising." Jack^(Lumber) 15:38, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Intrusive T

One thing I have noticed that many SAE speakers I have listened to do is put a t in between the l and s in words like else. Thus else becomes /ɛlʦ/. I think this "intrusive t" (that's what I'll call it, anyway) occurs every time an orthographic l is followed by an orthographic s for some speakers. I don't know if ANAE mentions this or not. Then again, ANAE seems to concentrate on vowels mostly. 208.104.45.20 (talk) 00:29, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure this feature is moderately widespread (though of course by no means universal) in North American English outside the South. I don't have any idea what its regional distribution is though. You're right that it's not addressed in ANAE. AJD (talk) 05:45, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

I realize that it seems trivial, but who's to say which features of a dialect are important? I have observed, after spending much time in the South, that this feature seems more common there than elsewhere, but I'm sure it can be found in other areas of North America as well. 208.104.45.20 (talk) 18:53, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

"but I'm sure it can be found in other areas of North America as well."

Such as Alaska. But I think you can get too nitpicky about what's SAE and what's not, because the "intrusive t" is probably just a lisp. I only know one person who does this. ~Jonathan (talk) 11:49, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

FYI: spurious info by 24.185.110.186

User 24.185.110.186 seems intent on changing a specific paragraph in the article to be incorrect. He/she was reverted twice by Ajd and me on 15 April 2008 and was previously reverted twice by Angr and Aeusoes1 on 28 December 2007. I have added a warning to the user's talk page (encouraging use of sources and discouraging OR). ++Arx Fortis (talk) 07:50, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Charleston Accent

There really doesn't seem to be much information on the Charleston accent on Wikipedia or anywhere on the internet for that matter. I would love to know more about it, but I just can't find anything. I realize it is fading away, but I just want to know what it used to sound like. Can anyone help me? 208.104.45.20 (talk) 01:54, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

I fixed the link for "Coastal Southern" but the article it links to doesn't have any sources. I recall seeing a comparison about Boston dialect with the Charleston dialect, but I don't recall where. ++Arx Fortis (talk) 16:02, 21 April 2008 (UTC)