Talk:ROH World Championship

Unification

Is it definite that the pure title is now a thing of the past? Are we sure that Danielson isn't going to just hold both and defend them separately? Tromboneguy0186 21:21, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

"World"

When was it declared a "world" title? Bdve 02:11, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

"Achieves World Title status on May 17, 2003 when Samoa Joe defends the title

in the United Kingdom vs. The Zebra Kid" Tromboneguy0186 04:57, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Must have skipped right over that. Thanks.Bdve 13:40, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

"Heavyweight"

Let's get this party started. First of all, [1] states that "ROH World Heavyweight Championship" is the name of the title. It's not referred as that exact name by commentators and newswire authors and the like because it isn't necessary. WWE's "World Heavyweight Championship" does not have a promotion prefix; this title does. You could just as easily call it the "ROH title" and people would still know what you meant, even before the pure title was discontinued. Take, for example, WCW. Their top singles title was commonly referred to as "the world title" as well, with the champion himself sometimes called "the heavyweight champion of the world." That belt's name, obviously, was "WCW World Heavyweight Championship," but there was no need to say all that on shows. Lastly, in the worlds of shoot fighting and amateur wrestling, weight classes are only restrictive at the bottom. Should someone weighing 160 pounds wish to wrestle in the 220 pound division, there's nothing in the rules stopping them. Therefore, anyone and everyone can challenge for a "heavyweight" title, if you really really want to add that much significance to a word that doesn't have any. The problems of moving up in weight in shoot fighting and amateur wrestling (being physically dominated by the size disadvantage) aren't present in professional wrestling, so it really isn't worth getting worked up over. If the word "heavyweight" does anything, it adds an air of prestige to the belt, as "world heavyweight championship" is a well-known and respected phrase, whereas "world championship" is rather nebulous.

And please don't make wholesale changes to the article without first discussing them. Thanks. Tromboneguy0186 23:55, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

I appologize for updating that without discussing it. However on all of their DVD releases the announcers never mention "heavyweight" nor when Gabe refers to the title the word "heavyweight" is never mentioned, nor is it mentioned on their fliers and posters. However I see where on one spot of their webpage it is mentioned, but in the results section (http://www.rohwrestling.com/pastresults.asp) it's just ROH World title. Since the company doesn't refer to it as a heavyweight title when it is mentioned, I wouldn't think it should be refered to it as that. However, in the long run it doesn't matter. I just thought I was updating the page to what is correct. Thanks. WarEagleRK

If you think the page should be moved, propose it here (there are guidelines to the proper procedure) and mention it here for as much feedback as possible. I can virtually guarantee no one will want anything changed, but if you wish to try there's no problem with it. Tromboneguy0186 06:57, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

It's ok. I'll agree to disagree. WarEagleRK

ROH's official webpage now lists it as the ROH World title. [2] WarEagleRKSept 6, 2006

You're too quick! I was just gonna come in and mention that Tromboneguy0186 21:39, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Cool, I'll get to work on the redirects. Tromboneguy0186 05:36, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was MOVED, per discussion below. -GTBacchus^(talk) 03:21, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Requested move

• ROH World Heavyweight Championship → ROH World Championship … Rationale: I personally wouldn't support this move, but I feel it's a discussion that needs to be had. Sans heavyweight would appear to better satisfy WP:NAME. Tromboneguy0186 05:15, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

I now do support this move; WP is now the ONLY place, so far as I can tell, that calls the title by this name. Tromboneguy0186 21:42, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Survey

Add "* Support" or "* Oppose" followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~

• Oppose - I see no need at the present time to move the article. - Chadbryant 05:31, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
• Oppose No reason to move it. TJ Spyke 06:20, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Weak support. I think the current name sounds better, but if ROH doesn't consider "Heavyweight" part of the name.
    • That's about how I see it too. "Heavyweight" also adds the fact that this is a singles title, but that just doesn't seem to be the correct name Tromboneguy0186 05:20, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
• Oppose Per the promotion's official website, its official designation is "ROH World Heavyweight Title" and not "ROH World Title." Deputy Marshall 06:25, 3 September 2006 (UTC) Changing to SUPPORT in lieu of most recent website changes (which indicates an official distinction by the promotion of "ROH World Title" sans the word "Heavyweight"). Deputy Marshall 07:36, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
• Support ROH's official webpage now lists it as the ROH World title. [3] WarEagleRKSept 6, 2006
• Support due to official name change. –– Lid ^–(Talk) 05:58, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
• Oppose Edgecution 02:24, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Care to say why? I realize it's not required, but (just about) the only remaining reason to oppose has been taken away. Tromboneguy0186 05:04, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Discussion

Add any additional comments

• Comment In many other places on the website, such as match listings for DVD's, "world title" is used, and the packaging on those DVD's has never used the word "heavyweight." It's only been used a few times on the shows themselves and when it has been, it's been casually in passing, and not by a ring announcer or a commentator. Tromboneguy0186 06:30, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
• It looks like this is gonna fail since those first two guys haven't checked back. How soon is too soon to propose this again? Tromboneguy0186 13:09, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
• Comment even if this fails, due to the new OFFICIAL change, I think it should be moved per WP:BOLD. –– Lid^(Talk) 05:55, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
• OK, but how would we go about doing that? There's a redirect in place blocking the move. Tromboneguy0186 06:41, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
• Damn, we'd need an admin to delete the page first. –– Lid^(Talk) 10:46, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

One note

Despite the article's title being changed, the category World heavyweight wrestling championships is still applicable, for many of the reasons I laid out in my crossed-out post above. Tromboneguy0186 06:48, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Notes

Since a certain editor wants to start an edit war (and I don't), I will bring this here. First, the ROH Title is not a world title, so it shouldn't say that it became one (I changed it to say that Joe and TNA started calling it that). Second, I added the air date for when the title change will be aired on PPV (which is standard for title changes that are taped before they air). TJ Spyke 00:45, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

1) Who, besides you, says the ROH World Championship is not a world championship. 2) It was the promotion, not Joe, who started calling it the "ROH World Championship", so get your facts straight. 3) WWE and ROH are not the same promotion. Edge won the title on a Tuesday, when it aired the announcers said it was Friday. Nigel McGuinness won the title on October 6, 2007, when it airs they are not going to say it is January __, 2008. Nigel McGuinness won the belt, Nigel McGuinness has already defended the belt, and ROH has and will forever recognize that he won it on October 6. If the match was taped for DVD you wouldn't put "won on October 6, 2007 (released December 2007)", because that is when people who were not at the show would first be able to see it. 4) As for you "not wanting an edit" but apperently I do, why did I add "not another f'n edit war" in the edit summory? Nenog (talk) 00:57, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

1)PWI (who are the definitive source in what is and isn't a world title in wrestling) has never given the ROH Title world title status. 2)My mistake, the point still stands in that it should say that they started calling it a world title (not that it became a world title). 3)Actually, WWE did announce on their website that Edge won the title on Tuesday and even have that date (May 8) listed in their title history page rather than when it aired (May 11). I know you want to act like the ROH articles are yours, but WP:PW is trying to standardize wrestling articles to make them look more organized and presentable. That title change will not air until January, and it should be noted. 4)You want an edit war because whenever you diagree with one of my edits, you just revert right away rather than discussing it first. TJ Spyke 01:16, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

ROH is first and foremost a DVD product, and not a PPV product. Mshake3 (talk) 01:32, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

1 & 2) World Heavyweight Championship#Professional wrestling basically states for a title to be a true “world title” it has to have the potential to be defended against any challenger in the world (lets see: has been defended 14 times in 7 countries outside the US in 4 1/2 years, and has been held by two wrestlers who are not from the US). If we scroll farther down to World Heavyweight Championship#List of World Heavyweight Championship, it says “due to no official universally accepted method of determining what constitutes a world title, there is no way to determine who truly has world title status” and that the most commonly agreed upon world titles are those recognized by PWI (meaning, these are the ones people all agree on, NOT the only ones in the world). Therefore, whether or not PWI recognizes it is irrelevant. 3) "WP:PW is trying to standardize wrestling articles", but they haven't set a standard they can agree on yet. You've got wrestlers who have gone by one name for the vast majority of their career listed by their real name because thats WP:PW wanted it listed, and others who have gone by several different names listed by their current ring name because thats the way WP:PW wanted it. The TNA roster says "Female wrestlers aka 'Knockouts'", but the WWE roster just says "Female wrestlers" instead of "Female wrestlers aka 'Divas'". Here the consensuses (yourself included) is that results of shows held by independent wrestling promotions should not be allowed if they were taped only for home release, yet here we have December to Dismember (1995), ECW Ultimate Jeopardy, ECW CyberSlam, and ECW Hardcore Heaven (excluding the last three) none of which were shown on regular television or pay-per-view, as well as stuff like Hardcore Homecoming#Results, so what is the standard? Yes, WWE did come out and announce when Edge first won the title and list that day on their website. But answer me this: when they showed it on television, what day did Michael Cole and JBL say it was? Nigel McGuinness first defense of the title has already been released, and ROH themselves have aired the footage of him right after he won the championship. There is no point in saying the match in which he won the belt will be shown later when he is already a defending champion. And as for me "acting like the ROH articles are mine, the same can be said about you for every single article relating to professional wrestling. I like ROH, and I spend most of mine time on here devoted to things pertaining to ROH. And I have a firm belief that if a person or promotion does, spells, etc. a certain way, it should be respected (i.e. using the phrase “if still champion” because that’s how they choose to advertise). 4) Said Mr. Pot to Mr. Kettle. Nenog (talk) 03:49, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

DDP

I Went To A ROH House Show And Saw Him Win The ROH World Championship Added It To The Article —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.185.98.180 (talk) 22:21, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

He may have defeated the champions but im guessing it wasnt a championship match because he isnt a former ROH Champion.

About Nigel's defenses

Nigel McGuinness successfully defended the title in Japan on May 15 against BJ Whitmer and KENTA, making for his 15th successful defense. www.noah-usa.cc's results page will verify this, and ROH's personal title history will be updated by the end of the week, given that the ROH newswire has mentioned this defense. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.91.13.193 (talk) 19:29, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

And just as a note, the Japan defense has officially been added to ROH's title history page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.91.13.193 (talk) 14:53, 20 May 2008 (UTC)