Talk:Jerome Corsi

Corsi calls for impeachment of George W. Bush

Corsi has called for George W. Bush's impeachment many times. I think this needs to be incorporated into the article somehow. http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/08/the-obama-overr.html

Do we have a direct link to where Corsi says this? We66er (talk) 17:00, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Yes, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJRYzuLehT8. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.6.173.150 (talk) 16:35, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Material from the Freep

It would seem to me that the decision to include Corsi's personal opinions from the Free Republic website is improper material for a NPV article.

why is that? no viewpoint is offered of these political opinions. it simply states that he is controversial partially because these Free Republic postings became publicly known. that's not point of view, it's reporting a highly public controversy and documenting part of the reason. since his work is political in nature, a controversy over his politics seems relevant to me. also, we report perhaps unflattering publlic utterances by many figures, such as michael moore and ann coulter. is it pov to report those?

Corsi has apologized, which means, he admits they were in poor taste.[1] Furthermore, he has been called a bigot.[2][3][4][5] That people have this view of his comments is noteworthy considering this remarks are racist. Such as, "The book includes lines that some might consider racially insensitive, such as, ' Obama's mother chose another Third World prospect for her second husband, a second man of color, to be her mate '."[6] WP:NPOV reads "all significant views that have been published by reliable sources" are to be included. Wikipedia does not censor comments that are "mean." We66er (talk) 15:42, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Concerns about bias

This article is blatently biased against Corsi and is far from NPOV. This is one more example of liberal control over Wikipedia -- a state of affairs which, ultimately, will doom this experiment. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.87.255.134 (talk) 04:53, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

The evidence presented at Wikipedia against Corsi is supported in voluminous academic, journalistic, and political studies. Corsi's racially tinged discourse and his politically motivated falsehoods and slander make him the very living definition of racist, liar, and demagogue. This is one Wikipedia entry that is amply and clearly cited, and the tone of the article is judicious -- far too judicious--considering what an execrable character he reveals himself to be via his loathsome revival of unrepentant, long-lived McCarthyism that the Republican Party's Rightwing culture has bequeathed to the nation's politics. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.86.167.14 (talk) 05:02, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

So you're saying that you think Wikipedia exists to fight "Rightwing" culture? It is amply cited alright, chock full of quotes from "Media Matters," Hillary Clinton's propaganda machine. Aletheon (talk) 14:40, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia does not exist to attack any view, but to present things the way they are. Corsi's views are controversial (North American Union, 9/11 Truth Movement, abiotic oil, Democratic politicians[7], etc) and the article needs to reflect that. PS Media Matters, isn't ran by Clinton. On contrary to your conspiracy, it was started and ran by David Brock- author of such attack books as The Seduction of Hillary Rodham. We66er (talk) 15:34, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

The point is that Media Matters should not be used as a credible third-party news source for Wikipedia articles. They do not perform a neutral journalistic function. Their own stated purpose on their website admits that they are anti-conservative, thus, reporting their views on Wikipedia in a context where they appear to be "factual rebuttals" is in violation of neutrality. As for their connection to Hillary, why did she herself claim to have founded Media Matters, if she isn't closely involved? Aletheon (talk) 16:59, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

You got a cite for that? --Orange Mike | Talk 17:27, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I'd like to see a cite for that too. Also I'd like Aletheon to demonstrate, in the particular instances in this article, why he doubts the crediblity of MM. Again, I'm asking for specific demosnrations of the particular claims in this article, not some Bill O'Reilly style attack accusing "the left" of some giant conspiracy. Also since Corsi has publiclty criticized MM's criticisms and even has debated their representatives, it seems like it would only be a political move to remove their criticism because of their "anti-conservativism." But I'll hear you out. Iii33lll (talk) 17:48, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm glad to say that wherever I find statements and criticisms from MM about anything cited in Wikipedia, it is clearly noted that they are a non-conservative organization and the reader must take that for what it's worth. If you know cases where this is not the case, Aletheon, treat it like any other cite to a strong-POV source, just as you would a criticism from Accuracy in Media. --Orange Mike | Talk 18:34, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

I cited my source quite clearly, Media Matters' own website. Re-read, carefully, what I wrote above. Neither "Orangemike" nor "Iii33lll" have given a substantive response to my challenge of Media Matters as a credible (read: neutral) third-party source of information. Aletheon (talk) 23:04, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Provide a direct link where Clinton "herself claim to have founded Media Matters." Also being non-neutral doesn't disqualify it as a source. Should we remove all references to Fox News (Fox News Channel controversies) too?

The Media Matters links in there: 1) on their criticism for Unfit to Command 2) one identifying Media Matters, with their platform, 3) on their criticism of Obama Nation 4) on Corsi's controversial internet postings (which is cited alongside other sources) 5) on Corsi and a MM representative debating on Larry King. You need specific examples that contradict or discredit what's in the article (only 5 MM links out of 88). MM doesn't cite anything that others haven't said. Their view gets heard too. We66er (talk) 17:24, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

To the quibbling and equivocating anonymous pontificator from New York, you, also, fail to give any cogent reason why Media Matters should be considered a credible (which in this context means neutral) third-party source of information. Aletheon (talk) 07:25, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

We frequently cite the likes of The New York Times and The Wall Street Journal. Well, both of those media outlets have lied to me. I cannot recall any instance in which a Media Matters for America statement proved to be inaccurate. JamesMLane t c 10:03, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

NPOV marker

An NPOV marker has been applied to this page, but there is no ongoing discussion. What is the problem? -Willmcw 08:18, 16 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Unless there is further discussion, I'm pulling the NPOV tag. -Willmcw 23:26, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I certainly thought it is pov. But not because of the quotes, but because it lingers on negative things about him. Эйрон Кинни (t) 03:09, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

I think it is less POV now. HKT^Talk 18:40, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

So long as they're presented in a factual, balanced manner I don't see the problem.

I added some of the plagiarism allegations that Debbie Schlussel has made against him.

I also think there should be some more material about his impromptu alliance with Jim Gilchrist, and his work in the Iranian freedom/no nukes for Iran movement.

Personally, I think Corsi is a complete and utter fraud, who latches onto noble, popular causes, e.g. the campaign against John Kerry, the fight against illegal immigration, the movement against the IRI, etc., in hopes of enriching himself and attracting publicity.

That being said, I won't insert my own admittedly biased opinions into this article.

Ruthfulbarbarity 05:13, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Military Service?

I see no mention of Jerome Corsi's military service, which I believe is fair as he besmirched one of American's Viet Nam heroes (i.e. John Kerry).Sea Wolf 01:56, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

If you can find a source covering his military service, or lack of it, then add it (with neutral wording). However we shouldn't editorialize by drawing a connection betwqeen his own career and that of the people he criticizes. Movie reviewers don't have to have made films, and pundits don't need to have been politicians. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 17:34, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Will is right, of course; I may suspect Corsi is just another chickenhawk, but that suspicion has no place here unless it is both true and a major source of criticism in verifiable venues. --Orange Mike 17:40, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Will, Oh, I truly think a connection can be drawn between his own career and those he criticizes with erroneous data. I believe a far more eloquent Will once wrote, "He jests at scars that never felt a wound."Sea Wolf 01:24, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

It's been mentioned in the press that one of his books is about veteran's views even though he isn't a veteran. We66er (talk) 15:46, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Corsi's statement that Barack Obama endorses abortion even after the birth of the child

The item which repeats Corsi's statement that Barack Obama endorses abortion even after the birth of the child is entirely correct. I witnessed just tonight Sean Hannity repeating that charge (out of many) from Corsi's book on Obama, to which Corsi instantly agreed and confirmed that was his charge.

It would seem obvious that this charge is contained in Corsi's recent hatchet job book on Obama as this was the topic of discussion when the claim was made.

The article says citation needed. I suggest that Corsi's book be used as the citation, though no amount of money could get me to read it myself. Perhaps some other more daring soul could find this charge within the book and then provide the citation called for. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.217.69.209 (talk) 10:51, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Include Corsi's 9/11 conspiracy interview/ research?

As reported in the press, Corsi's interview with Alex Jones about a 9/11 conspiracy is popular on the internet. Should we add a link under "external links" (listen here) to the offical interview? Or to the youtube audio mentioned? --Iii33lll (talk) 20:37, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Has this been posted anywhere with a bit more editorial oversight than a blog? It might be suitable for a mention, but I'm dubious. – Luna Santin (talk) 21:01, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

A google search for ("jerome Corsi" "alex jones") turns up 23,000 google hits. Just today its mentioned in the press here: [8][9][10] and on Obama's page. Since this appears to have been recently discovered, likely by his critics, it seems relevant to mention and will likely draw interest in the next coming weeks. It's silly not to include this given the interest in Corsi's research and work. Iii33lll (talk) 21:06, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Hmm. Fair enough. I see you also linked the same on The Obama Nation and haven't yet been contested (it may be more appropriate over there, in the long run?). I'll put it back in, for now, pending any further discussion or opinions from other editors. Thanks. – Luna Santin (talk) 21:11, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Also the story popped up in the foreign press. Iii33lll (talk) 21:12, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

It also in [11] and is mentioned in Obama's rebuttal.[12] We66er (talk) 23:05, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

North American Union

Maybe the article should discuss the North American Union conspiracy more? He talks about it a lot: [13][14][15][16][17][18][19][20][21] We66er (talk) 04:23, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

I just expanded it. We66er (talk) 04:55, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Even more Corsi talking about a North America Union. Corsi radio, "conspiracy", on criticism from conservatives over it, defends Paul on it, replace the US and Republicans and the conspiracy. As Corsi even notes, people have called his claims on the North American Union "a crazy conspiracy (conservatives criticism him here).

Criticism towards Corsi about a North American Union: [22][23][24][25][26] Iii33lll (talk) 18:23, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Corsi talking about a North American Union[27][28][29][30][31][32][33][34][35][36][37][38][39][40][41]

Corsi being criticized for it:[42] [43][44][45][46][47][48]

Combining these, it seems like there a lot here for a larger portion to be added. Iii33lll (talk) 18:37, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Abiotic oil is a fringe view

Corsi's view of abiotic oil is a WP:FRINGE view and must be reported as such. 1) The abiotic oil article gives the history of the concept and explained it only has standing in certain circles in Russian-Ukrainian (former Soviet Union). 2) As the article cited on the Corsi wiki page reviews the history of the idea, the actual science behind the theory is lacking. Thus, by WP:ATT the dispution to the author it makes it sound as if this theory is accepted when in fact he reviews the history to say it does not have consensus in academia. The source for the claim and other information is wiki-linked, demonstrating the fringe view. Corsi is not a scientist and wikipedia must present claims based on due weight.

Until Corsi or others convince the scientific community Petroleum#Formation is wrong the article will present Corsi's claim as WP:FRINGE. We66er (talk) 01:36, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Corsi and claims that the government planned 9/11

From THE NEW YORK TIMES http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/08/14/anti-obama-author-on-911-conspiracy/

Mr. Corsi says, “The fire, from jet fuel, does not burn hot enough to produce the physical evidence that he’s produced,” Mr. Corsi said. “So when you’ve got science that the hypothesis doesn’t explain–evidence–then the hypothesis doesn’t stand anymore. It doesn’t mean there’s a new hypothesis you’ve validated. It just means the government’s explanation of the jet fuel fire is not a sufficient explanation to explain the evidence of these spheres–these microscopic spheres–that Steven Jones has proved existed within the W.T.C. dust.”

This needs to be mentioned. His connection to the 9/11 Truth movement has been cited in many stories in the media, lately. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.6.173.150 (talk) 12:27, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

It's in there, read the article. We66er (talk) 15:29, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

The Obama Overreach: Refuting A Few of Corsi’s Smears By Re-Writing History (ABC NEWS)

See http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/08/the-obama-overr.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by Heardt (talk • contribs) 23:35, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

What should we included about it? The author calls Corsi a 9/11 Truther and highlighted an issue and said "But that’s one man’s opinion." Then, "Certainly it’s not “baseless” to question why Obama was using Patrick’s words as his own without crediting him . . ." Should we also included the same allegation made against John McCain?[49] I don't think either is valuable enough for an entry mention.

That article hightlights that issue "it doesn’t belong alongside the more unhinged Corsi smears." It also says Obama's response confused "anti-Israel" with "anti-semite." Though the author concludes, "I’m not defending Corsi. Much of what he writes is troubling and fictional."

I don't see where we can add these two minor issues since they have little value, especially when that article calls into question Corsi's work. But I'm open to hear some ideas. Iii33lll (talk) 23:48, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Conspiracy theorist

Him being a promoter of conspiracy theories needs mentioned in the lead not only because of many sources, but because the majority of his books, four, are about it compared to his political attack books, two.

• Black Gold Stranglehold: "expose[s] the fraudulent science that has been sold to the American people in order to enslave them."
• Atomic Iran: Democratic politicians are corrupted by Iranian money and are helping the mullahs, who seek nuclear weapons, in Tehran.[50]
• The Late Great U.S.A.: The Coming Merger With Mexico and Canada: "I began to see a pattern of North American integration under SPP that developed into the major argument of my current New York Times best-selling book, "The Late Great USA"[51]
• Minutemen: The Battle to Secure America's Borders: "President Bush most likely continues to consider groups such as the Minuteman Project to be "vigilantes," ... His secret agenda is to dissolve the United States of America into the North American Union."[52]

Thus, the lead needs to explain what some, in this case the majority of his work has been called. The four books are conspiracies. And that doesn't even include all of this internet columns linked above. We66er (talk) 16:52, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Unsourced Material

1) Barack Obama is NOT in favor of abortion after birth... that is stupid, ignorant, fallacious and an absolute lie and should be clearly identified as such. To allow such a falsehood to go unchallenged is inexcusable. Obama's votes of "present" in the Illinois Senate, while seemingly evasive, are quite politically adept. Such votes are neither "yes" nor "no". Simultaneously protecting vulnerable members in conservative districts and avoiding personal attacks from the majority Republicans. see http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2007/07/obama-abortion-.html

2) Poor Corsi couldn't perform in the service of his country :( He has eczema according to his appearance on "CPAN This Weekend" this morning (8/16/08). I personally watched it.

3) The majority of his sites ("footnotes") are either to himself, one of his blogs, or some right-wing, mostly discredited blogs. He calls himself a journalist (he fails to use the appropriate adjective, yellow). Common opinions identify his "books" to be screeds.

4) Media Matters at least researches their blogs. Lplzydeco (talk) 20:48, 16 August 2008 (UTC)lplzydeco in Denver, CO

Nationality

Can somebody re add nationality to the lead. I was removed recently without explaination by an IP. Thank you. --70.181.45.138 (talk) 21:04, 17 August 2008 (UTC)