Talk:Perion Network

Proposed changes to the article - Jrssystemsnet 15:38, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

{{verify}} {{neutrality}}

Overview

IncrediMail is an e-mail client which produces multimedia e-mail.

Its free ad-supported version is available for download at its website. The paid version, IncrediMail Premium, removes its advertisements.

The product is intended to be user-friendly, and it employs a Graphical User Interface and multiple templates. The program offers both audio and video embedding in e-mail messages. Recipients do not need Incredimail installed to see the embedded graphics, but they must use a mail client capable of handling HTML email.

Controversy - technical

There is much controversy over the usability and viability of HTML email in general. Due to its heavy and very visible use of HTML formatting in its default out-of-box configuration, Incredimail finds itself at the forefront of this controversy as what many of the detractors of HTML email consider an extreme "worst-case example" and many of the proponents consider "fun and friendly."

Some argue that the program increases message sizes (and consequently download times for recipients) and uses more bandwidth than text-only or HTML mail. In addition, the (default) heavy use of HTML and embedded images in Incredimail is difficult to tell from spam in automated filters; at times high-profile pump-and-dump penny-stock spammers have used this similarity to sneak their payloads through those automated filters. Preferences within the program can be set, however, to send mail in a plain-text format.

Controversy - legal

Finally there has been a good deal of controversy over the privacy policy of the company which produces Incredimail. The program collects data such as how many emails are sent, how many pictures are sent in those emails, dates and times the user has the program open, and more.

Verbiage from the EULA Incredimail users must accept in order to install the program is also a source of controversy, as this EULA provision at one time specifically granted the Incredimail corporation "an unrestricted, perpetual, irrevocable license to use, reproduce, display, perform, modify, transmit and distribute" any email sent using the program itself. This text has since been modified to restrict these rights grants more reasonably to unsolicited email sent to the Incredimail corporation, however.

Further controversy over potential security issues within the Incredimail client and service seem born out by the "Risks" clause in the current EULA, however, which includes very forbidding (and unusual in an email client, see the Thunderbird EULA for a contrasting example) text about "hacking, cracking, nuking," and more:

8. RISKS
THE SOFTWARE, SERVICE AND SITE MAY BE VULNERABLE TO VARIOUS SECURITY ISSUES 
AND SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED SECURE. BY USING THE  SOFTWARE, SERVICE AND 
SITE YOU MAY BE SUBJECT TO VARIOUS RISKS, INCLUDING AMONG OTHERS:

Unauthorized exposure of information and material you post on or through the Service.

Exposure to objectionable material and/or parties, including without limitation, 
content and messages that may offend and which may  contain contaminated files. 

Unauthorized invasion of your privacy during, or as a result of, your or another's 
use of the Service.

Spoofing, eavesdropping, sniffing, spamming, breaking passwords, harassment, fraud, 
forgery, "imposturing", electronic trespassing,  tampering, hacking, nuking, system 
contamination including without limitation use of viruses, worms and Trojan horses 
causing unauthorized, damaging or harmful access and/or retrieval of information 
and data on your computer and other forms of activity that may even be counlawful(sic).

IF YOU DO NOT WISH TO BE SUBJECTED TO THESE RISKS, YOU ARE ADVISED NOT TO USE THE 
SOFTWARE OR SERVICE. 

Unfortunately the EULA for Incredimail is not available online at this time, and so can only be readily viewed by downloading the actual program and beginning the installation process.

There is obvious controversy about the EULA, as shown by the fact there is a discussion here about it. I think it is fair there should be comment about the "suspicions". However, I think it is unprofessional and against Wikipedia principals to quote something we can't link to and say "it's not online right now...."

Also, reading over this EULA, it appears to say the software MAY BE VULNERABLE to certain risks, not suggesting the company are practicing those risks. That is 100% fair. Isn't it?

Siteadvisor.com (http://www.siteadvisor.com/sites/incredimail.com) ranks incredimail safe 100%. I think we also need to add a reference to someone who labels them as Spyware to show the controversy, but it has to be under Wikipedia guidelines of fair, verifiable quotes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Keepitreal74 (talk • contribs) 20:56, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

See also

• Comparison of e-mail clients

External links

• IncrediMail website
• German IncrediMail Helpsite

es:Incredimail fr:IncrediMail ro:Incredimail

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/end proposed change Jrssystemsnet 15:38, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

excerpt from an old version of the Incredimail EULA (no longer present in this form)

Actual Excerpt from the EULA (End User License Agreement) you agree to when you install Incredimail: "10. UNSOLICITED MATERIALS Any confidential, secret or proprietary information or other material submitted or sent to IncrediMail, including without limitation via any Message sent by You through the Service, Site, or IncrediMail's physical mail and e-mail addresses, or in any other way, will be deemed to be not confidential or secret. By submitting or sending information or other material to IncrediMail or by posting information on any portion of the Service you (a) Warrant that you have all rights of any kind to the material and that to the best of your knowledge no other party has any rights to the material; and (b) Grant IncrediMail an unrestricted, perpetual, irrevocable license to use, reproduce, display, perform, modify, transmit and distribute the material, and you further agree that IncrediMail is free to use any ideas, know-how, concepts or techniques you send us or post on the Service for any purpose, without any compensation to you or any other person."

The End User License Agreement (EULA) is a legally binding contract between the End User (you) and the software provider (in this case Incredimail). IncrediMail® is a registered trademark of IncrediMail LTD.

Yea, tell me this stuff is a great product to use huh?

~~Brody~~

Incredimail isn't Malware

The statement "is not malware" needs a reference. Or is it just self-apparent from the Wiki definition of malware, maybe? --213.112.82.29 22:53, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

"Contrary to some people's speculation, IncrediMail is not malware." This is highly debatable... 201.19.223.77 02:01, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

I was wondering if i could add http://www.oldapps.com/incredimail.htm here.

This is the only site that provides old version of incredimail..

No. You have been spamming oldapps.com for a long time, and it's not constructive to the purpose of an encyclopedia. Haakon 10:18, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

This article is wrong in stating that Incredimail is not malware. It most definitely is, as given by many sources:

http://microsoft.toddverbeek.com/mailnews.html

A quote: "At the time I tried Incredimail, I found it to be such a resource hog. It made my system slow and in general bog things down. It did do fanastic with mail though, but then I found it communicated with the mothership and I dropped it. I removed it and things went back to normal. I ran spyware to do a final cleaning and all is well. Its supposed to have cleaned-up thier act, but I usually don't return to s/w once they've done that. Why should I trust them." from here: http://forums.cnet.com/5208-6122_102-0.html?forumID=44&threadID=12328&messageID=140431

A quote: "Then about 30 minutes later up pops WinPatrol to say Incredimail is trying to write to my start up menu. Now I don't know if incredimail is spyware, but I do know I have no idea how it got on my system, I know I did not want it and it was a right bugger to get rid of (requiring a regedit)." from here: http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13165115

A quote: "Incredimail is Spyware in that it makes over 1200 changes or more to your computer's registry. It is hard to get out of your computer once you download it. Incredimail comes out of Isreal the last I heard and it does track it users and in a way it is spyware." from here: http://infoave.ipbhost.com/lofiversion/index.php/t23895.html

http://tpsconsulting.blogspot.com/2005/04/incredimail-is-spyware-longer-you-use.html

and from my own prior experience running Windows, it forcefully installs itself into your system, collects data about you without telling you, hogs resources, contacts its home page continuously resulting in slower webpage loading, and has no "uninstall" method which removes all traces of itself. It does indeed require a regedit and manual deletion of files and folders to remove. It meets every criterion for malware I've ever heard of, including the fact that it is superfluous to the email process and adds no value.

Why is this page locked from editing with the misinformation in place? I'm kind of new to Wiki and don't want to stomp on any toes, but the least we could do is flag it "the neutrality of this article is disputed".

Hosiah 22:30, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Whether or not a program is malware is extremely subjective. The way I see it the real bottom line is this: If the program does everything that you ask it to, and nothing you don't, then it's not malware. For many people, Incredimail does not pass this test. Yes, it does things many people don't want. Sure, it does things in ways that some people don't like. All programs have advantages and disadvantages. It's up to the individual to decide where on the scale each program lies.

As such, there is no "neutral point of view" on this issue. For this reason, if no other, the article should not state that it's not malware - nor should it state that it is malware.

(FYI, I am a pleased Incredimail Premium user, and have been for years)

--JimH443 06:45, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

I was going to leave my response limited to what I said above, but I have a point of view that I feel needs to be expressed.

First, as to it being a resource hog. Generally speaking, the more capabilities a program has the more resources it's going to use. A related example is the difference between Internet Explorer (or just about any browser) and Hyperterminal (does anyone here even remember that program?). Hyperterminal was ASCII only, no graphics of any sort. Because of this, it was very small (would fit on a floppy if you wanted it to) and used very few resources. Despite the fact that Hyperterminal uses less resources, it's not a very popular program - and IE, Foxfire, Netscape and Opera (et al) are not being called malware due to their requiring more from the computer.

Second, as to its adding itself to startup. Incredimail is by no means the only one. A program that I find particularly annoying in this regard is Adobe's Acrobat pdf reader. Yet I don't hear people claiming that Acrobat is malware. BTW... those who have WinPatrol installed can use its features to prevent Incredimail (or any other program) from loading at startup any time they choose - during installation or at any time after.

Third, it's "calling home." Again, not at all unusual - especially for communications software. It keeps users informed about new releases. My Avant browser does this. So does Windows.

Fourth, the fact that it uses the registry. Come on - you're kidding, right? Can you name 5 programs that don't??

Fifth, collecting data unbeknownst to the user. I admit I am ignorant of, and unconcerned about, this aspect. I will not argue that it does not, nor will I concede that it does.

Unfortunately, you're quite correct about the inability to effortlessly & completely uninstall the program. I see this as a very serious drawback that should be corrected immediately. For me, though, that point is moot as I have no intention of uninstalling it.

--JimH443 07:31, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

It may or may not be mailware. The simple fact that it is so disputed merits a mention in and of itself. I feel that something about it's possibility should be mentioned in the body of the article. And 1 or 2 links giving each side of the issue. This way both sides are covered, and doing it in as neutral way as possible. 75.120.87.94 22:08, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

In response to all this, I'd like to note something. I work for Geek Squad, and hadn't heard of Incredimail before today... when a client called in complaining that Incredimail had taken over her computer. Examining things revealed that this was true... it had hijacked her browser, was using up huge amounts of resources, and basically slowed her system to a crawl and prevented her from doing anything, while insinuating itself into everything she did. As such...

Firstly; there's a HUGE difference between 'uses a nontrivial amount of resources to perform needed functions' and 'is a resource hog that prevents the user from doing anything'. Based on the client's complains and my own assessment of things, Incredimail clearly belongs to the latter category. You don't need that much power to run a mail client, but you DO need it to spy on a user without their consent and control their computer in malicious ways.

Secondly; email programs don't need to be in startup. Anything that you can run yourself when you need it doesn't need to be in startup. The only things that should be in startup is the software you need to run your hardware, security software to defend yourself from threats, and (grudgingly) a handful of other things that may come up on an individual basis that you need to run your particular machine. Anything else just slows you down. Being in startup, in and of itself, doesn't mean malware, but all malware wants to be in startup, because it can't spy on you otherwise.

Thirdly; calling home. Any sort of 'phone-home-ware' should be carefully scrutinized. Occasional update checking may be permitted for vital software only, but spying on the user may not. Incredimail seems to be an example of the latter; there's other reason it should be using as much bandwidth as it does. I haven't given it a conclusive enough examination to prove it as spyware (that's not my job), but there's a good lot of evidence to suggest such.

Fourthly; using the registry. There is a difference between the way that normal programs use the registry and the way Incredimail (ab)uses the registry. I spent over an hour manually removing instances of Incredimail from my client's registry. There had to me more then a thousand entires there. Nothing else does that. The most really awful and insidious malware doesn't do that. That is an order of magnitude more registry entries then even the biggest legitimate program should ever need, barring only Windows itself. That's why it's too much.

Fifthly; their privacy policy explicitly allows them to do this. No legitimate company has such a scummy policy, and their program certainly does enough to allow this. I can't conclusively prove that it does this, but there's evidence enough to more then suggest that it does.

Finally; the uninstallation. It won't uninstall itself. You need to manually expurge it if you want it gone. This takes even trained professionals a long time; based on it's malicious and irresponsible poisoning of the registry. And the fact that it won't uninstall itself is one of the other black marks of malware.

Make your own conclusion on the matter, but I've made mine... and would suggest that the controversy at least be mentioned in the article.

Endovior 04:52, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

getting rid of "Incredimail installation"

I am not a member of any forums (that i like) and this might help others so here it goes. Somehow the kind of creepy developers of I.M. found where my computer was and now everytime i start my computer there is an orange envelope icon telling me to install, even if i delete it. How do i make it so it is deleted pernamently? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.196.115.179 (talk) 00:59, 10 May 2007 (UTC).

You're using some version of Windows, I assume? Simple enough; it has to be starting from somewhere, and general startup is the most likely culprit. Run MSConfig, and check your startup items. Get rid of everything you don't recognize/approve of. That's the free version. The $129 version involves a six-hour exorcism; I do it all day, every day. Endovior (talk) 13:15, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

series of very heavy edits just now

This article was completely rewritten as a pure advertising brochure last week by User:Sheerian. I slashed and burned it pretty heavily to try to return it to something resembling a wikipedia article, hopefully with a reasonably neutral pov. NOTE: the edits made by Sheerian were his/her first wiki edits ever, and given the heavy use of relatively advanced markup tags, sheer number of links back to corporate press releases, and tone of the article as a complete re-write I have to suspect the origin was most likely Incredimail Ltd. itself. --Jrssystemsnet (talk) 08:02, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Merger

This page and its non-capitalized partner, Incredimail, talk about the exact same thing, but they're two different articles. Merge? --Gp75motorsports ^{REV LIMITER} 15:42, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Incredimail was a redirect to IncrediMail until User:Sheerian edited it into a clone of the brochure-like rewrite s/he did here. --Jrssystemsnet (talk) 23:37, 21 January 2008 (UTC)