User talk:Keith D/Archive 9

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re Burnsall images. Thanks for interpolation of my image with the existing. As stated in my Edit summary, I opened a gallery as I will be adding in the next few days pictures of the village illus. of the stub: notably of the church. So I'll reinstitute the gallery. I'm staying briefly in the area, am a photographer as well as a contributor. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alethe (talk • contribs) 21:08, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

WP Banner Lincolnshire

Thanks keith, I found it on a random search of Lincolnshire, Just after id left a message on the WP Lincolnshire founders page asking if there was one yet !! So I added it ot a few pages as a start and to get some interest as nobody had signed up (for project) from when Id found the project page a few weeks ago, and added it to UK message board list. I was going to ask you about setting up the rest of it but servers have been a bit intermittent today. Is the assessments sub page just a copy of the master page copied to the project space ? I was just going to add it to the main towns + other high importance articles + the companies that Im interested in once ive cleared up a few outstanding Sheffield articles to assess. - BulldozerD11 (talk) 21:14, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Just take a copy of the Yorkshire one, and change Yorkshire to Lincolnshire. You may have some bits at the bottom to remove about articles for reassessment. I have set the Lincolnshire one up the same as the Yorkshire one. I think Yorkshire was the basis for the introduction of assessment for the Sheffield project as well. Keith D (talk) 21:21, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

OK I'll do that, yes I think Warofdreams used Yorkshire, as the banner initially linked to the Yorkshire project page. - BulldozerD11 (talk) 22:31, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks Keith for fixing my bad typing (again) with Project page Wikiproject > WikiProject (was going to ask ypu to fix it later when you are less buisy) with Wiki 0.7 work. Any sugestions on subject cats to Tag first (done main towns + Companies list), What are considered Top Priority subjects ?. - BulldozerD11 (talk) 16:24, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Got it right second attempt, I see the bot has already picked it up, I was looking at he bot instructions to see what had happened when I spotted the error. I would suggest some of the geographic features like rivers, villages etc are probably the next set though cannot see many top priority ones. On people there is always Margaret Thatcher who was from Grantham. Would be good if you could drop the Yorkshire template on to the Sheffield ones while you are working round them. Keith D (talk) 16:38, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Added Trent, Lincoln Cathdral and Thatcher so will look at Cat: rivers in Lincs and cat: villages in Lincs or similar then. Thought if I Get a few Nown article may get some editors (possibly ? ).

Had not dropped WP Yorks on most Sheffield articles as didn't whant to over tagg, but can add them as i go, but have assessed (helped) 98% now (6 football ones left) on Sheffield till I find more to tag. Do you want WP Yorks rated as well, or do you want to 'see them' yourself ? - BulldozerD11 (talk) 17:08, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

You can rate them if you wish, I will spot them when the bot adds them to the list, though it appears to be running less frequently at the moment. I just need to keep an eye out for the increase to see when to regenerate the watchlist then we can keep an eye on the changes. Keith D (talk) 17:16, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

(Indent out) Thanks for note on tagging Keith, been doing Derbyshire today (yesterday) I'll have a look at the Lincs list then- BulldozerD11 (talk) 01:04, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

class ratings

Keith in your opinion is the class rating parrameter assigned by editos 'Global' in that all project boxes on a page should have the same value, as obiously the importance / priorty is project dependant. I've just had (after rating loads of articles over last few days) had BG7 say they should be changed in all Project boxes, yet loads had them had different values in multiple projects already, and if it should be one value then template should be structured to share value / auto update ? - BulldozerD11 (talk) 22:34, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Personally I only update projects I am involved with and leave others alone, apart from GA and FA where they are externally rated and I set all projects the same. The problem comes of setting them all the same is some projects are not using C-class and others have specific criteria that must be passed before it reaches certain levels such as a B-class. Keith D (talk) 22:41, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

That was the veiw i took (unless obiously way out of date stubs/starts) I canot find anything saying one way or the other at WP edit team 1.0 page or on assessments page. but it does say importance/ priorty will differ between projects. Some were updte way before C was introduced, and others have ben left at stub by bot taging (WikiProject Business mainly). I'll leave BG7 to it, as plenty more articles to look at. - BulldozerD11 (talk) 23:14, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Another quiery on the ratings scheme, when you have some spare time, would you have a look at Trent and Mersey Canal as this has been rated B by waterways, but has miminal refs I'm trying to get abetter feel for what makes a B article as I reassess some of the other Derbyshire ones from Start to C and am trying to judge what makes a B . - Thanks againe - BulldozerD11 (talk) 21:39, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Definitely a C class with only a single reference there is no way it can be a B class. There is some layout problems that need fixing like external links coming before the references and the stacking of the edit links around the photos but they are minor. I would probably move the upright photo from the middle of the set as well as looks out of place.

The start rating from UKGeo is before the introduction of C class and they have not re-rated the article yet, but the waterways rating of B is earlier than that so someone is way out with the ratings. Keith D (talk) 23:52, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

There is several I looked at that come under Derbyshire all at B with minimal refs as the main thing that struck me, as well as the layout issues with all the footer sections jumbled up. For B i need to read the WP:MOS in detail, but the (expanded) Assessment Class table has the basic guidance outlined, which id been gauging against and why id asked for an opinion on a couple of articles as a check. For Derbyshire i was going to go through the Start ones looking for C's as alot were assessesed before C came in or have had work done since looking at dates in the history / diff between then and now. - Thanks again - BulldozerD11 (talk) 01:18, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

(Indent out) Keith could you give me an opinion on River Trent as its a B -class, , I've changed footnotes to References, re jigged the order and added EL section, and added aditional {fact} tags as lower section with variouse claims is un referenced. What does it need to move up to A class in your opininon (its an article that rated High on several projects), so if it only needs a few tweaks its a good target.

The ibox says its in Yorkshire as well, but my OS maps a few years old and has S,yorks stoping short, and the confluence with the Ouse being in Humberside, which was re jigged, with Goole now in East Yorkshire, (on WP) so boundary appears as a few 100 m of river bank on the Goole micro map. - Thanks - BulldozerD11 (talk) 11:41, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Hi, I tend to not be so good at the higher levels, I do not really use A-class, in the recent changes it needs a review by more than one person. I will have a look at the article later but B-class is normally followed by a GA review, though some people like to have a peer review first. I find the peer reviews are often a waste of time at this stage and better suited to pre FA nomination. Keith D (talk) 12:11, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

From a Yorkshire point of view it is only the East Riding of Yorkshire that it touches. It forms the boundary between the East Riding of Yorkshire and Lincolnshire for a very short distance around Blacktoft Sands. May be we should put in the Category: Rivers of the East Riding of Yorkshire and the project template. Keith D (talk) 15:48, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Looking at the article I would think that by fixing the missing references and a copy-edit would enable it to be nominated for a GA review. Though I am uncertain why Hull is mentioned in the infobox as it is the Humber by then, unless they are attempting to indicate where it goes, may be a problem if you get a picky reviewer who knows the geography. Back to Sheffield which is doing my head in. Keith D (talk) 16:06, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks Keith, I dident tag as Yorkshire as was not sure (as above) on Boundaries. Harkey Lodger posted a link to rivers guidance notes which are a bit long (complicated), but from a quick look it may have a issue with the list of places (order) and stuff like tributaries, as well as refs which I spoted first off. Good look with Sheffield Article, its abit light on some of the History / Economy IIRC some stuffs left to look up in the links instead of a brief note (but then getting a balanced overviews hard). PS Thanks for joining Lincs Project (the Low, mid, high, & top prioity cats have emptied out, but the tables not updated yet they have just disapeared so may need to talk to Editorial V1.0 team) ? - BulldozerD11 (talk) 19:02, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

I will look at the categories later and see what I can see. The problem with Sheffield is the article is attempting to cover the City of Sheffield authority area and the city itself and I cannot work out what is what. Though it is a featured article it is not easy to understand and I cannot work out the context for which is which. It is also very repetitive. Though I am not changing the content just the formatting, dabs and the like. Keith D (talk) 19:09, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

I have deleted the old categories now and the bot appears to have picked up the change as the stats are looking OK after tonight's update. Keith D (talk) 22:12, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Yorkshire Newsletter - October 2008

Delivered October 2008 by ENewsBot. If you do not wish to receive the newsletter, please add an * before your username on the Project Mainpage.

→ Please direct all enquiries to the WikiProject talk page.
→ This newsletter/release was delivered by ENewsBot · 11:07, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Hebden Review

Thanks for reviewing the Hebden page, Keith. Langcliffe (talk) 17:49, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Importance / Priorty Parameter

The use of the term Priority in the project banners is slightly confusing as the Table has the tern importance and several projects use Importance as the term and the internal codes for that. Whats the Reason Priority was used on Yorkshire (and by default Sheffield & Lincs), as Companies, Derbyshire and Trains use Importance In and On the banner / template. If im Tagging a few I just Copy a existing { {WikiPro------|----|---|--|} } one and delete the existing values, as soon got borred typing out the lot (especialy derbyshires with 5 extra bits + nested on some pages. Thats why i now batch tag, espeicaly if adding other projects as well. - BulldozerD11 (talk) 01:52, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

I think you read it wrong or I got it round the wrong way. These projects use importance, the person tagging has put priority in the ones they have tagged. Unsure as to why there is a mixture of usage across projects I would have thought that it was easier to have a standard name for all projects. I think at some stage the standardisation project will look at that, they are currently changing all the template names to WikiProject X rather than have the different formats of template name. For example Cycling project changed to WikiProject cycling. Keith D (talk) 10:45, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

I Probaly was not clear in trying to explain it but the Banner when Displayed Shows the term PRIORTY on the face of it.

{{WikiProject Yorkshire}}

(Please disable after veiwing, as if class set to NA it will not display importance)

As Shown above - BulldozerD11 (talk) 11:28, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, I see what you mean, may be we should clarify the template some time. The last change to the template on October 1st has not managed to get round all of the articles yet so the job queue must be struggling. Keith D (talk) 11:37, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

I've fixed the Lincs template, and assemments page terminology. BUT have not fixed the actual categories it references to (so still adds to Cat------ Priority) as will need moving/renaming and if i point to new ones for Importance ones it would leave 2 sets operating. (done before it needs its transcluded into hundreds of pages) (must fix my spell checker as well on this m/c) - BulldozerD11 (talk) 14:20, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Unfortunately you cannot rename categories the new ones have to be created and the old ones deleted. Unsure how the bot handles double named things. I may find out when it runs next as I have a duplicate of list class on the Yorkshire project at the moment. Depends if the bot runs before the job queue gets processed. Looks like priority is out of favour as most projects have importance in the categories, I guess it was that way for the Yorkshire project when I got involved. Keith D (talk) 15:50, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

So if I change the Categories in the template the list will regenerate under the new name from the category code in the template. The old Categories can then be deleted by CFD request ? . Just the Bot generating the table then to worry about. If you didn't have to tell it the Categories existed to run an update of newly created projects tables the Editorial team or bot team must monitor all Cats that follow the basic layout ??? Or have i missed something ?

You first need to create the categories, copy from existing, then change the template. The articles will in time move over as the requests get through the job queue. Should be quicker for Lincolnshire as there are not that many articles. When the old categories are empty give me a nudge and I can delete them. Keith D (talk) 17:56, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Think ive got it sorted set up Top,High, Mid, Low, & Unknown cats for importance using the code from the priorty ones you created. tested by raising grantham to top and its in the new one. The enbeded master cat link will transfer it to the main cat (Lincs stood out in the list as priorty instead of importance). Need to fix the project page now. The serves will take time to up date the pages i suppose. - BulldozerD11 (talk) 21:21, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Its been 4 days on the Yorkshire change and still not complete yet. It works on first come, first served from what I can gather, unless it is something small. Keith D (talk) 21:35, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Have now made a user box now for Lincs, Just need some participants / members, note you havent signed up yet, would you like to join up ? ,. The portal link do you think it best to create a holding page (Under Construction etc) and a redirect link back to the project page ? - BulldozerD11 (talk) 17:18, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

I was wondering about a user box for the project. On the portal I would have a word with user:Kaly99 who appears to have set up several portals, including the Yorkshire one, she may set up a basic one for you. Keith D (talk) 17:56, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Hi. Thanks for the pointer on which parameter to use with the wp lincolnshire template. I'll go through the articles I tagged and put it right, and look at a few more. Thanks TheRetroGuy (talk) 18:18, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia DVD Version 0.7 and WPYorks

What are the current priorities, in your opinion, please? I've had a crack at some geography and refs for some articles. Is there anything howling out to be done elsewhere?--Harkey (talk) 19:15, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Hi, glad to have you back on board. Currently working my way backwards through the list with copy-edit passes to each one, think there are 17 left to process, currently just started Sheffield Wednesday F.C.. I would take a look at User:SelectionBot/0.7/XYZ-1#Yorkshire and see which ones I have not got a version against and have a go at fixing any problems on them. I think Leeds is going to be a particular problem one with the users who are POV pushing on that one at the moment. Once I have a version for each one I hope there will be time to check out the later changes but we appear to the the only project on that page to have done any selection as yet! Keith D (talk) 19:28, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks.--Harkey (talk) 19:51, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

OK.I'll start at the top with ASDA. Arrrrgh!!!--Harkey (talk) 21:05, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Struggling a bit with Bradford but will persevere! Just glanced at Doncaster. Would it be acceptable to create a list article of the "famous people" then link to it, please?--Harkey (talk) 10:25, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

I would think so as most of the other place articles have this. I see that James axed the short list from the Yorkshire article that I thought was rather useful but unreferenced. I have given up on changes and now just copy-editing, checking all the links go to articles and the external links are still valid but that takes time getting through about 1 or 2 a day. Just started Scarborough. Keith D (talk) 10:33, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Scarborough has a list in article but I do not intend removing it at the moment. Keith D (talk) 10:38, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

I suppose it depends on knowing how "Famous" is famous in the particular location and whether the information can reasonably be condensed or expanded into prose.I wouldn't know who was famous in sport etc., anyway. :-)--Harkey (talk) 10:48, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

(outdent) while you are there - any idea who "John Fairgray Sharpin" that is mentioned in the Scarborough article is? Keith D (talk) 10:53, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

I think he was a mate of my dads, uncles, cousins, (twice removed) friend :-) Getting daft now!! Seriously though! Looks as though the text has been "borrowed" - without reading on. "The history and heritage the finest of hotels in Scarborough". proof.crownspahotel.com.--Harkey (talk) 11:12, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Back again - I've done as much as I can to ASDA and Bradford. Maybe you could give them a quick glance and put them on the list. There's strange red text in the refs list for Bradford. Anyway upwards and onwards, as they say. Doncaster, here I come.--Harkey (talk) 19:27, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Corrected above mentioned red text - it was a red link in the ref.--Harkey (talk) 21:29, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

(reset) I've also tried to clean up Yorkshire a bit at a time “Softly, softly, catchee monkey”. The Sports section and Lead will, I think, always be open to POV but its a lot more toned down and encyclopedic now, I hope--Harkey (talk) 11:32, 9 October 2008 (UTC).

I spent some time on Yorkshire - especially the references switching from date to accessdate and fixing the dead links. I will have to pick-up later version though unsure about the section James deleted. When we have finished on the DVD work all the changes in the Yorkshire article need filtering down to the spin-off articles that were created from it! By the way I have taken a version of Asda. Keith D (talk) 11:40, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I noticed you had done a fair bit of work on Yorkshire. I've gone as far as I can with Doncaster but it's a bit short on refs. Most of the research is from a couple of books.When the DVD work is over I'd like to try something with Kingston upon Hull again. I think we struck a bit unlucky last time at GA. Now for a trip to erm...Huddersfield!--Harkey (talk) 12:11, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, just started on Bradford but will have to wait until later as going out now. On the Hull front your comment yesterday on list of people reminded me that when we were doing Hull I moved some of the people off and started a list for Hull in my sandbox, not much there yet but must get back to it or at least move it to article space. I also started a list of schools but never loaded that so if we go back to Hull then I can dig that out as well. By the way are you literary inclined in any way, I asked on the project page while you were away and got no response, for a GA stab? Keith D (talk) 12:27, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

I'll have a stab at anything, used to be a headteacher so did the lot at times!! When I looked at Huddersfield, it seems to have been maintained really well by User:Richard Harvey so I'll drop him a note and a copy of the last newsletter as I don't want to mess anything up.--Harkey (talk) 12:34, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks again Keith, I've been doing a bit of vandal patrol as I didn't want to start anything big. The power has been going down periodically.I had another little tweak at Yorkshire. Holding my breath to see what happens! I can't see that there was much wrong with having the list of notables in the article. They all seem to have been born before 1972. If I told my next door neighbour that Yorkshire no longer existed I'm sure he'd have me put away, but I do see the point that James is trying to make. I just wish we could agree on some wording to ensure that the cultural loyalties people feel are recognised and catered for. The military obviously are taking advantage (Yorkshire Regiment). Its probably worth another regiment to them to have such loyalty. Anyway, I digress, back to work. I'll take a look at Halifax tomorrow, leaving Huddersfield alone for a bit.--Harkey (talk) 21:09, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

(edit conflict)Just 11 to do now, 1 per day to hit the target. I do not see much activity by other projects so not sure what is going on. I see you have skipped the Football articles, which will have to be tackled some time. Keith D (talk) 21:24, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

PS What was the literary thing you mentioned?--Harkey (talk) 21:20, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Back in August a user thought that Anne Brontë may be a Good/Featured article, as I spotted a few problems I did a copy-edit pass through and suggested they nominate it. The user has not made any further edits since then, so I was looking for someone to put Anne Brontë through GA. I do not know if it meets standards for biographies but looks OK to me. I could do it myself but I could not answer any questions that may come up at GA on content. I did have a thought later that may be we should get all of the family up to GA status but that's not for now. Keith D (talk) 21:34, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

(Reset) I'm willing to give Anne Brontë a go. My specialist subject on Mastermind would be the Wickes Catalogue 1970 to Date but I'm sure there is enough grey matter left to tackle something more demanding. (PS. OK. I'll try to copyedit Bradford City AFC. It'll be a good test of whether it's understandable to a footbally naive reader.)--Harkey (talk) 21:51, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

We could go for an article on that but I do not think it would last that long. I managed to do the 2 Sheffield football ones while I was passing but on to Rotherham. Keith D (talk) 22:15, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Working Man's Barnstar

		The Working Man's Barnstar
		For your tireless assessment of articles for the Yorkshire WikiProject. I can almost guarantee who will assess any article I tag the project. JD554 (talk) 09:49, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. Keith D (talk) 11:10, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Hull education

Hi Keith, I reverted the references on education in Hull but you got to the contributor at the same time as me with the message. Thanks--Harkey (talk) 15:48, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

I was hoping the user would get back with references as it is an experienced editor. Keith D (talk) 19:12, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

ASDA

Thanks for your work last night. By the look of the time stamp on your message you were burning the midnight oil.I have altered the TOC and heading levels. I tried to model it on the TESCO article as the structure was a bit strange but then the sub sections got out of hand.--Harkey (talk) 08:00, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Just had another go! If I've messed it up, sorry, just revert. Tried to condense the number of sections. May not be PC, but probably more readable.--Harkey (talk) 08:48, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Yorks (mystery) tour

I've been through Halifax where I accidentally bumped into User:Richard Harvey, who was also there at the time, so will now move on to Rotherham for a while.--Harkey (talk) 09:39, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

How did you recognise him, was he the only person in town? Keith D (talk) 09:48, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

" The Renaissance will take up to 25 years to complete." Apt quote from Rotherham! I've done first pass. Maybe we could make list of "People from Rotherham" to get that out of the way.--Harkey (talk) 10:32, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

It well take some work to make it passable, I did a few changes but needs major surgery. The list would be a start as some of them are mentioned at points through the rest of the article, I remember chopping the Chuckle Brothers from 2 places in the culture section. I have done Middlesbrough F.C. after loosing half my edits as the browser crashed. Keith D (talk) 12:17, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

I have to take a couple of days off, promised to take an elderly friend back to 1942. (War Weekend on the North Yorkshire Moors Railway.) I will resume as soon as I get back. (Monday p.m.)--Harkey (talk) 13:06, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Hebden Village

Hello, Keith

I have taken a third look at the Hebden article as suggested, and added a Religion section, a section of the origin of the name, and a reference to the Domesday book entry as recommended by the How to Write About Settlements page. Do you think that a section on Public Services is required for such a small village? I really don't want to clutter the article with material for its own sake. I am also a little perturbed by the increase in size of the Photo Gallery which has appeared. I was pleased to see half a dozen photographs which served as peacock descriptions of the area, but we now have a dozen, half of which don't really seem to contribute to the article. However, I don't want to incur anyone's wrath by removing any. - John --Langcliffe (talk) 10:13, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

I do not think that a Public Services section is required but others may if you go for a GA review. I did spot in the religion section that a better link may be a direct one to the Diocese of Bradford rather than as now.

On the photos I think the first move would be to get them on commons, there is some tools to do that but do not know off hand what they are, and create a category to group them together. You can the use a link to that from the article with {{commonscat}} so readers can get to them all. Others can be added there for readers to see without clogging up the article. I would then select a few appropriate ones and put them though the text or down the right-hand edge and may be get rid of the gallery or just have a set of 4 across the bottom of the article.

Have a word with the user first just to see how they react to proposed changes. Keith D (talk) 12:39, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Catching up

Hi Keith,

I hope all's well with you. I've been away from the project for a few months now for personal reasons. Back now, though I'm not in a position to edit as in-depth as I did before. Still, I'll be happy to help as as I can nonetheless. It looks like the Hull and KC Stadium articles have been in good hands during my hiatus. Anything on your radar that needs attention where I might be able to help out? Doonhamer (talk) 23:56, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, Keith D, for your kind welcome to Wikipedia —Preceding unsigned comment added by Petripavlovian (talk • contribs) 00:12, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, Keith D, for your kind welcome to Wikipedia