Talk:Heather

Proposed move

I suggest that this page (currently Heather (disambiguation) is moved to Heather. I have recently changed the Heather page from a redirect to Calluna to a redirect here, as "heather" is just as correctly applied to many other species, and so its use for Calluna vulgaris is not a dominant usage. This leaves Heather as essentially unoccupied, and so removes the need for "disambiguation" on the name of the dab. I have entered this proposal on WP:Requested moves. Richard New Forest (talk) 14:35, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

• Oppose. Heather is primarily used to mean Calluna. It even says this at Erica. 128.232.1.193 (talk) 16:21, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

No, I don't agree, not here in the UK at any rate. It is true that "heather" most often means Calluna if it is used only as a single word to mean a single species. However, it is very often not used like that. A number of Erica species have "heather" in their name – bell heather Erica cinerea cannot be called "heath", and tree heather and many other species can be either.

More importantly, "heather" is used whenever a general term is required rather than talking about an individual species (and "heath" is never used like that). The Ericaceae family is usually called the "heather family". "Heather" is the general term used by non-botanists for all similar plants: when they say "walking through the heather" they surely don't only mean Calluna! Finally it is used by botanists, ecologists and gardeners for unspecified small-leaved ericaceous plants in general – for example heathland might be said to be dominated by various heathers, or a garden might be a heather garden – "heath" would surely never be used in those senses. If I said to another ecologist that my cattle often eat heather, their first question would be "which species?" (though actually on the whole they do prefer Calluna to Erica...).

The OED has an interesting article about Heather – historically "heather", "ling" and "heath" were each used in Scotland, northern England and southern England respectively, each for all the species occurring locally. I also wonder if there is an American/UK split here? Is it in America that "heather" tends to be restricted more to Calluna? Richard New Forest (talk) 20:13, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Well, the opposing editor above appears to using an IP registered to Cambridge University, so I wouldn't say it's a US/UK thing, at least not in this case. From my experience (as a Cumbrian), I have heard Heather referring almost exclusively to Calluna, as far as plants go. Regardless, I don't have an opinion on the location of this page, or the target of the redirect. Dreaded Walrus ^{t c} 20:47, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Let them speak for themselves – plenty of Americans at Cambridge... Richard New Forest (talk) 09:43, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Hello, thanks for the explanation, Richard. I can see where you are coming from. My concise OED says "heather. n. A purple-flowered heath typical of moorland and heathland. [Calluna vulagris.] > informal: any plant of this family (Ericaceae); a heath." I understand this to mean that "heather" normally means Calluna. PS: I am British, but I admit I am not studying botany at Cambridge! 128.232.1.193 (talk) 12:57, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

• Oppose. Heather should point at a plant, on the principle of least surprise, and the obvious one is Calluna vulgaris --Rumping (talk) 02:19, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Not quite clear... Why should it point to a particular plant species? Surely only if that was the main use? What other term could be used for all heathers? Richard New Forest (talk) 09:43, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

• Possible alternative: a sentence explaining the word "heather" in the intro paragraph of the Calluna page. What do others think? 128.232.1.193 (talk) 12:57, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
• Support. I did not check before since this one appears to be so obvious. To say that the plant is the primary use and that redirecting to Calluna would not uprise a large number of editors is questionable. Heather is a rather common name. Vegaswikian (talk) 23:53, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Hmm. That was not the argument put forward in the proposal. Surely everybody knows that the name derives from the plant. According to the stats tool, hardly anyone looks at Heather (name), compared to Heather. 128.232.1.193 (talk) 19:14, 4 November 2008 (UTC)