Talk:Santa Catarina (state)

Help to improve articles related to Brazil in Simple English Wikipedia. If you are not fluent in English, that is the right place.

---

i had to erase the following sentence: " the only state in Brazil where the capital is not the largest city",because there is at least one other state wich has a city other than the capital ocupiing the post of largest: Espírito Santo, wich has Vila Velha as the largest city and Vitória as the sate capital

---

Actually Vila-Velha is bigger than Vitória, because Vitória is a small city in the map, most of the cities in Espírito Santo are bigger than Vitória, but Vitória is the most populated city, abou 520.000 while 450.000 in Vila Velha. Vitória is the most populated city in the State. So you are wrong —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.78.130.60 (talk) 22:32, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Please Swap the maps!

The articles "Parana" and "Santa Catarina" (which are states of south Brazil, the 3rd and 2nd respectively, counting from the southern most state) have maps of each others states. Parana is actually Santa Catarina in the map and vice versa. Someone please make the corrections. By the way I love this web page, but my country, my region and my state are misrepresented sufficiently already. Anticipated thanks

Most European

The phrase "Santa Catarina is the most European state of Brazil." needs references because it is not a fact when you study Brazilian history. The fact is that the Brazil was colonized by Portugal, and Portugal is a European country, like Germany, Italy and Spain are. In the northeast you can find so many Portuguese cities, like Salvador and Olinda. Rio de Janeiro and Rio Grande do Sul are another case.

Opinoso, could you prove that this is a fact? You can post some article in Portuguese then we can observe this.

See you.

Bruno SL 19:48, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

---

Neither Salvador or Olinda are Portuguese cities. Both have Historical architecture that was built in the colonial times. Since Brazil was a colony of Portugal, the architecture is of Colonial Portuguese origin.

But, the fact is not only the buildings or Historical houses. It is also includes the local culture, the inhabitants' ethnicity, languages and traditions.

Both Salvador and Olinda have a large majority of African-Brazilians living there. Neither the culture or people's ethnicity are Portuguese.

Just because they have a few 400-years-old Portuguese housed does not make them an European city.

In other hand, in many cities of Santa Catarina, not only the architecture is European, but the people are descendants of European immigrants. It also reflects the local culture, which is very European.

Santa Catarina is, by far, along with Rio Grande do Sul, the most European State of Brazil. It is more European than Rio Grande, because in the late, there is a strong Gaúcho culture, which is not European. The miscigenation of European, African and Indian culture in Santa Catarina is very small. Most of the its inhabitants' culture come from Germany or Italy or Azorean Portugal

By the way, Salvador is considered the most African city outside of Africa. Their old Portuguese buildings don't make her European Opinoso 18:13, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Opinoso 18:13, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Ok, but I am still waiting for a evidence that the Santa Catarina is the most European state of Brazil. I need this to put in the article.

Yes, what you told about Salvador is true, actually it is the most African city outside of Africa. It is a fact because you can count this, and the IBGE did this in the last ([1]). But for 200 years Salvador was the biggest European city out of Europe, and it is a historic fact ([2]). But is there a research about the most European state in Brazil actually?

See, I work with evidences, could you bring yours evidences?

See you. Bruno SL 18:52, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

In another hand, you must tell us what mean "Most European". It is because there is many Europeans there? It is not true, they are at most Brazilians. It is because the culture? It is not true again, because in Brazil south one of the biggest culture is from the "bugre", or gaucho, as you told us before, then... what you mean with that affirmation? Is that there is more white people than another state? Well, this probably is true, but then we must change the text to express this.

When you find a evidence tell us, then we will put it at the text.

Good night, Bruno SL 23:21, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Some attempts to explain why Santa Catarina is the most European state in Brazil (adapted quotes taken from different sources):

1) Settlements of immigrants make of Santa Catarina the most European state in Brazil. [3]

2) The state population is mostly composed by people of European ancestry, with a predominance of Portuguese, Italians and Germans. [4]

3) The influence of European immigrants exists all over Santa Catarina in the architecture, foods, accents and feasts. [5]

4) In Northern Santa Catarina, the European settlements - Germans, Swisses, Italians, Norwegians, French... - left marks in almost every town, giving them a strong cultural characteristic.[6]

5) The European Valley is "a piece of Germany in Brazil". One can notice this feature in the architecture, foods and crafts, beautiful gardens, clean streets, politeness of people, October feasts. Blumenau is the best known [city]; Pomerode is the Germanest; Indaial and Timbó also preserve such a culture [...] [7]

6) The Itajaí Valley is also known as "the Brazilian Europe" because of its typically German towns' characteristics, like the gastronomy, half-timbered houses, and the high education of its inhabitants.[8]

7) Italians were the largest migratory stream to Santa Catarina and represent 65% of its population. [9] Santa Catarina holds the largest contingent of descendants of Trentinians (people from Trento - also known as Welschtirol, Northern Italy) in the world.[10] In fact there are many Europeans in Santa Catarina, because many Catarinenses hold also an European citizenship [11]

8) An outstanding aspect that comes to mind when one thinks about people of German ancestry in Brazil are the feasts [...]. The most representative example is the Oktoberfest, which takes place in Blumenau, Santa Catarina. It's an authentic German feast out of Europe (celebrated, by the way, in a city that looks quite European). In fact, it is the second largest German feast in the world, just after Munich's. [12]

9) A research done in 1993 in a small community in Santa Catarina revealed that 75% of the interviewees used to speak German in everyday life while talking to parents and grandparents, while the remaining 25% spoke German ocasionally. In many communities like that one, the German language is still the favourite language in family communication and among neighbors.[13]

10) The "Parque Nacional da Serra Geral" in Santa Catarina is the most European part [of the Serra Geral] in Brazil. The temparatures decrease to negative Celsius degrees many times a year. In the "Parque Nacional de São Joaquim", snowfalls are constant throughout the winter. Many of the farmers in that region are of European ancestry [...][14]

11) The reasons that led to the ocupation of Santa Catarina with European immigrants differ from those which led Brazil to look for European immigration, because in Santa Catarina there weren't latifundia. Thus the state had a lower percentage of slaves than any other state in Brazil. Therefore the immigrants actually arrived in order to improve the land value and protect the area from invaders rather than to replace slaves as main-d'oeuvre (labour) after the slavery abolition (unlike other regions in the country).[15]

12) Compared to the other states in Brazil people from Santa Catarina have: (A) The highest percentage of ethnic Germans and Italians; (B) The highest percentage of Portuguese (Azoreans) non-mixed with Indians.[16]

By the above reasons I think that the statement "is the most European state" could remain, though I believe it would be more appropriate to change it to "is known as the most European state" or "is considered the most European state", since it's hard to measure "Europeaness" quantitatively.

--Hansch 00:22, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

I think the issue is really Santa Catarina is the whitest province in Brazil. Is it the most European is another matter? Certainly Portland, Maine is more "white" than Paris, France - but to call Portland more Eureopean than Paris France is comical.

My guess is that some people here have taken the most modern European looking aspects of the state (photos) and have described the place as some sort of utopia to emphasize how 'whites' have made the state so wonderful, and that the place is not mixed. Having visited - I can assure you that Santa Catarina is neither as advanced/wealthy as Europe or North America - but the average person is also not as 'white/european' as they claim. While certainly small towns like Pomerode are the exception - the big cities are very multicultural, with many of the 'white's' mixed - though predominantly european (unlike Sao Paolo where the vast majority of 'whites/europeans' are in fact mixed with African blood). Fermat1999 (talk) 21:49, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

"10) The "Parque Nacional da Serra Geral" in Santa Catarina is the most European part [of the Serra Geral] in Brazil. The temparatures decrease to negative Celsius degrees many times a year. In the "Parque Nacional de São Joaquim", snowfalls are constant throughout the winter. Many of the farmers in that region are of European ancestry" - Oh, please, this is ridiculous! I think this statement alone is enough to prove how useless it is to call some place "European". This is not objective, and you all may see the arguments which are used to prove that controversial idea. I mean: the highest parts of the Andes or the Himalaia are colder than most parts in Europe, and those regions are not European, not at all. How do people think cold weather is an exclusive characteristic of Europe?!

Again, Wikipedia is an ENCYCLOPEDIA, and phrases like "Santa Catarina is the most European state" is a matter of opinion, a subjective statement. It may be replaced by serious and objective sentences like "Santa Catarina has one of the strongest European influences in all Brazil, both in its culture and ethnicity". And, please, don't speak about an "European" climate, because temperatures will never make some place European. Let's just use an example: Australia is warmer than Nepal, so would Nepal be more "European" than Australia?189.13.28.238 (talk) 05:40, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Wrong pronunciation of Santa Catarina

Final "a" in Brazilian Portuguese is a near-open central "a": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near-open_central_vowel This open /a/ only exists in a few BP dialects, and I'm sure this is not the case of the Manezinho or any other Southern dialect found in Santa Catarina.189.13.28.238 (talk) 04:31, 30 November 2008 (UTC)