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m Archiving 2 thread(s) (older than 2d) to User talk:JzG/Archives/January 2009.
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::: And '''consensus''' to ''add'' that site to the blacklist was achieved.... exactly when and where? It seems like a unilateral decision on your own part, without discussion. [[User:Dtobias|*Dan T.*]] ([[User talk:Dtobias|talk]]) 13:41, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
::: And '''consensus''' to ''add'' that site to the blacklist was achieved.... exactly when and where? It seems like a unilateral decision on your own part, without discussion. [[User:Dtobias|*Dan T.*]] ([[User talk:Dtobias|talk]]) 13:41, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
:::: I haven't seen a good objection to its presence on the blacklist yet. Are you denying that it's an unreliable site hosted by a fringe-theory advocate? Or are you saying that using unreliable sites hosted by fringe-theory advocates as references is a good thing?—[[User:Kww|Kww]]([[User talk:Kww|talk]]) 14:17, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
:::: I haven't seen a good objection to its presence on the blacklist yet. Are you denying that it's an unreliable site hosted by a fringe-theory advocate? Or are you saying that using unreliable sites hosted by fringe-theory advocates as references is a good thing?—[[User:Kww|Kww]]([[User talk:Kww|talk]]) 14:17, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
:::::One should, I suppose, apply ideological litmus tests to the webmasters of any site before allowing it to be linked? But my objection here is less to the specifics of that site or its owner than to the concept that adding things to the blacklist can be done unilaterally without discussion by one admin, while removing them or making exceptions to them requires consensus. That's a tilted playing field, and opens up the possibility of systemic bias. [[User:Dtobias|*Dan T.*]] ([[User talk:Dtobias|talk]]) 14:33, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Revision as of 14:33, 7 January 2009

There is no Cabal
This user is a member of the Wikipedia Ultra Secret Inner Inner Cabal, a cabal so secret that not only am I not allowed to know who the other members are, I am not even allowed to know if there are any other members, and if I ever did find out that anyone else was a member I would have to kill them immediately.

You can contact WUSIIC on #wikipedia-ultra-secret-inner-inner-cabal on Freenode. As a courtesy you are requested to kill yourself afterwards.


R       E       T       I       R       E        D

This user is tired of silly drama on Wikipedia.
If you are going to be a dick, please be a giant dick, so we can ban you quickly and save time. Thank you so much.

I check in most evenings, and occasionally some days during the day. I am on UK time (I can see Greenwich Royal Observatory from my office). If you post a reply at 8pm EST and get no reply by 10pm, it's likely because I'm asleep. My wiki interests at the moment are limited. I still handle some OTRS tickets.

Dispute resolution, Bible style - and actually an excellent model on Wikipedia as well.

If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over.
But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.'

If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

— Matthew 18:15

Please do not try to provoke me to anger, it's not difficult to do, so it's not in the least bit clever, and experience indicates that some at least who deliberately make my life more miserable than it needs to be, have been banned and stayed that way. Make an effort to assume good faith and let's see if we can't get along. Guy (Help!) 22:16, 18 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

the internets is populated by eggshells armed with hammers

Note to self

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Istria&diff=192329190&oldid=189359747

<3

Joy
Joy

Celarnor Talk to me has given you a kitten! Kittens promote Wikilove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Share the WikiLove and civility with everyone and keep up the excellent editing! Send kittens to others by adding {{subst:Joy message}} to their talk page with a friendly message.



Cycling events

Argh - just realised you are a cycling fan anyway so removed this mini-rant ;-)

WP:ANI

Following your note her, can you remind him to stop things such as [1][2]. -- User:Docu

Wikibreak

I'm taking a few days off, I have some things that a re filling my time and Wikipedia is (as always) an irresistable distraction. Guy

Again on Cold Fusion

Hi JzG, sorry to bother you again, but it seems we have a little problem on it.wiki. BTW of the blacklisted site, there's an user that states there's also useful material, freely released by scientists who wrote about Cold Fusion, and asked for those documents to be whitelisted. Now the question is: have en.wiki either blacklisted the whole site or left some deeplinks to some given documents in white list (In other words: what do we lose in terms of knowledge if we blacklist that site)? Thanks again for your attention. Sergio † BC™ (Write me!) 18:35, 5 January 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Blackcat it (talk • contribs) [reply]

  • Some of it is not freely released, and much of it is heavily editorialised. It fails our reliable sourcing guidelines, and I would bet even money that it it is Jed Rothwell (the site owner) who is arguing for it. Guy (Help!) 13:22, 6 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • Guy, that's an inappropriate comment, it's irrelevant who raised the issue. The use of a total advocacy site as a place to view released documents that were themselves from a reliable source is an appropriate use, provided the link is specific, i.e., just picks up the document and not the framing that may be placed by the site owner. (A more general pointing to a page that contains the document or a link to it might be proper, but is definitely more questionable.) The site might contain a *lot* of material that is inappropriate and unusable, but that should not prevent usage of what is appropriate. The needs of the project and of the readers should be paramount, and being able to read original articles serves both. Further, when the topic is the controversy, sometimes reference to advocacy sites is relevant, under some conditions, as a source that an attributed claim from a notable source was made. These are decisions, ultimately, to be made by consensus. --Abd (talk) 15:09, 6 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I do not know I if I really want to get involved with this issue, but it seems to me that enforcing "reliable sourcing guidelines" is a missuse of the SPAM blacklisting process. At a minimum it creates the impression that blacklisting is used to enforce a POV, or win edit wars. I hinted at the problem earlier on User:Jehochman's talk page: Misuse of spam filter to enforce POV. I did not complain to you directly, as I did not think you were a party in this debate. Anyway, this is what I said earlier:
In these two edits User JzG (talk · contribs) removed vital references from the article on Martin Fleischmann. The first was the removal of the URL-line in an well formed {{Citation}} template, the referred file being a PDF copy of a peer-reviewed paper in Physics Letters A, available on-line at a cold fusion related repository lenr-canr.org. The second was the complete removal of the reference to the original press real, on-line at newenergytimes.com. I tried to restore the link and reference, but was prevented by the spam filter. I do not know what is happening here, but I find it very fishy.
-- Petri Krohn (talk) 13:56, 6 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Vital references? I don't think so. Not when they are published on the hack website of a fringe group. Anything truly vital will be published in, and citable from, a reliable source rather than something like lenr-canr, which has been relentlessly spammed and promoted by the site owner to the point that he is now de facto banned. Guy (Help!) 15:40, 6 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Am I to understand from your comment, that you are personally involved in this editing dispute? -- Petri Krohn (talk) 15:50, 6 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know if routine process for challenging spam filter inclusion has been followed yet. If the sites were added by Guy, then, of course, requesting that he reverse this would be an early step. Above, there is implied such a request. It looks like Guy denied it. Okay, next step. --Abd (talk) 15:09, 6 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Just driving by, but there are many cases where crappy sites are listed in the spam blacklist and in the XlinkxRevertBot lists just for being crappy unreliable sites, even though they are not "spammed" per se. It isn't an abuse of process, it's just a poorly named list.—Kww(talk) 16:22, 6 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Many thanks for your attention JzG, are you going to include lenr-canr.org in meta.wikimedia's spam list too? Sergio † BC™ (Write me!) 18:19, 6 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I've now formally requested JzG remove the site, which he added unilaterally, from the blacklist. That doesn't resolve the question and wouldn't be an acceptance by him that the site may be used, but it undoes his usage of administrative tools to support his own views (one must be an admin to edit the spam blacklist). Hopefully, he will do this, and then we can focus on content.... --Abd (talk) 19:47, 6 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I generally would propose additions at WP:WPSPAM and let one of the regulars there add it. Jehochman Talk 20:36, 6 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The linking to lenr-canr.org certainly fits the profile at WP:WPSPAM. Is there any admin that would have done anything different?LeadSongDog (talk) 21:04, 6 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
No, any admin would have done the same. Jed Rothwell was actively spamming his site as part of his ongoing campaign of disruption and POV-pushing, I did exactly what I would do (and have done) in any number of similar cases. Handling linkspam is one of my most consistent long-term activities on Wikipedia, and I am also a meta admin for the same reason. In the case of Fleischmann, he has over 14,000 hits on Google Scholar, it is unlikely to the point of implausibility tat any genuinely vital content would be surceable solely from a site so heavily spammed by its owner, and so heavily skewed towards advocacy of a fringe POV. On WP:BLP articles in particular we should take good care to use only reputable sources; lenr-canr is not one. One of Rothwell's links to it as the "citation" for the DoE review of cold fusion turned out to be a heavily editorialised version. As a source it is untrustworthy, but that is not the reason for the blacklisting, that is due to Rothwell's long-term spamming and disruption. Abd should note that all actions, editorial, administrative or otherwise, are unilateral, that is the whole point of having an account - the actions one takes are associated with one's account, end of. The addition was listed for review on the blacklist talk page at the time, but we do not sit around waiting for vandals to vandalise a bit more while we wait for someone to wander by and express an opinion. Guy (Help!) 22:59, 6 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

On DickLyon

Hello JzG. You have been a little involved in editing the articles related to Blanchard's theory Bailey's book, etc. You likely have read what goes on between myself and DickLyon. Could you help me to resolve my apparently personal dispute with DickLyon? I know we disagree over the merger proposal. This is not about that. This is about the fact that I provide reasons for why I write what I write and he just insults me. I have never insulted him in any way.

Now I am no angel. The user Jokestress and I have mixed it up in the past. Last time out she took the fact that I was the guest of a border in the home of Dierdre Mc Closkey (You should have an idea of who that is from reading on the subject if nothing else). She wrote that I broke into her house. I threatened legal action. Yeah I sould not have done that. I believe an admin or bureaucrat totally deleted that text because I have tried to find it. I also mixed it up with the user User:AliceJMarkham she took it as an insult that I refered to him as a male. But "Alice" said on her talk page[[3]] "I am a Transgendered person. More specifically, a male who cross-dresses as a female." The last user I called female by assuming from their name and user page was MariontheLibrarian who is known now as user James cantor. I plead no contest to not being a wiki saint.

However Dick's insults feel different. Because he basically has decided he is not going to write anything and will just complain in a way that is at least impolite if not outright insulting. He may be refarining from editing the actual article due to COI. But if that's the case then how can his COI not invalidate his comments on talk pages? That's not what I am going for though.

Basically what I want is to avert this mess going to a higher level of conflict resolution. Please help. --Hfarmer (talk) 23:00, 5 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Happy First Edit Day!

Happy First Edit Day, JzG, from the Wikipedia Birthday Committee! Have a great day!

Willking1979 (talk) 13:47, 6 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Please remove lenr-canr.org from the spam blacklist

JzG, please remove lenr-canr.org, added by you December 18, 2008, to the local spam blacklist. This is a library of papers and the decision to link to an individual paper, as citations, which you have made impossible by the blacklisting, is one which should be made individually, citation by citation. On the face of it, lenr-canr, as a library of papers, would be a source which we should allow as an external link; however, this is a separate matter. Your use of your administrative tools, in this case, may have been improper, you are clearly involved.

It's much simpler if you remove the site than if we go through more complex processes involving other editors. Thanks. --Abd (talk) 19:43, 6 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The response doesn't seem to match what I see, nor does it address the issues I've raised. Instead of what may be useless argument, you seem very convinced of your position, I gather that you are refusing to remove the listing, and consider your use of administrative tools to be appropriate, even though you may be involved.
This was an attempt to resolve a dispute by direct communication between parties. One more question, though: would you consent to the removal of the listing by another administrator, should one make that decision? I'm looking, Guy, for the simplest and least disruptive means of resolving this. --Abd (talk) 23:57, 6 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
No, because the only rationale you have given refers to one link on one article (which might or might not justify whitelisting of that one link); the site has been spammed by its owner, and abused in sundry other ways. We use the blacklist to control link abuse, we use the whitelist to enable carefully selected links from sites whihc have been abused, where consensus is that such links are of significant value. Guy (Help!) 09:44, 7 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
And consensus to add that site to the blacklist was achieved.... exactly when and where? It seems like a unilateral decision on your own part, without discussion. *Dan T.* (talk) 13:41, 7 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I haven't seen a good objection to its presence on the blacklist yet. Are you denying that it's an unreliable site hosted by a fringe-theory advocate? Or are you saying that using unreliable sites hosted by fringe-theory advocates as references is a good thing?—Kww(talk) 14:17, 7 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
One should, I suppose, apply ideological litmus tests to the webmasters of any site before allowing it to be linked? But my objection here is less to the specifics of that site or its owner than to the concept that adding things to the blacklist can be done unilaterally without discussion by one admin, while removing them or making exceptions to them requires consensus. That's a tilted playing field, and opens up the possibility of systemic bias. *Dan T.* (talk) 14:33, 7 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
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