Talk:Táhirih

More information

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I just wanted to get something up here.

There is so much information about Tahirih, I think that it should be discussed in more detail.

I will try to get back to improve this entry soon. In the meantime, there is plenty of information about this topic on the web, so if anyone is inclined to research and add more info, or if anyone is already an expert on this subject, I wouldn't mind the help.

-- Chris

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Made a minor edit to the page, as I realized that the original link for "Babi" was pointing to an incorrect entry.

It should now be pointing to the right place (more or less). I pointed it to the article on Babis (who were followers of the Báb). In the future, I may create a page more specific to the Bábí religion and point it there.

-- Chris

sources

Amir, I gave a source in the edit summary: There is an account of the wife of the Kalantar cited on p. 62 of the Dawn-Breakers, the narrative of Nabíl-i-Zarandí, a Bábí and then Bahá'í. He took detailed accounts, verifying and citing his sources, spanning the period of Bábí history to Bahá'u'lláh's passing. You can read the book translated into English with notations here. Brettz9 22:26, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I am well familiar with the "history" of Bahaism via the poems of Nabil Zarandi. He was Baha's "court poet" (sort of like the "malak-ul-shu'ara"!!!) LOL ... and in Bahai "culture" he is also considered one of the "historians"!! Anyway, if you consider such works to be reliable and respectable sources, good luck to you, cuz you're gonna need it. --Amir 00:38, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Tahirih Thealogy AfD

Please note the Tahirih Thealogy article has been nominated for deletion Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Tahirih_Thealogy. Paul foord 02:04, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

Taherzadeh's translation of the Báb's writings.

• There are a number of passages that refer to "Qurratu'l-`Ayn". This is a title of Táhirih, but Taherzadeh claims that these passages refer to the Báb Himself. Uhh.... what?! Danny Lilithborne 04:20, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Danny, can you point me to an example, so that I can look at this. Thanks -- Jeff3000 15:49, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

• • The book I have is copyright 1976, and has the ISBN number "0 85398 066 7". The first mention is on page 49, and begins "O Qurratu'l-`ayn! We have, verily, dilated Thine heart in this Revelation..." Danny Lilithborne 20:11, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

A google search finds that this is featured in the "Qayyúmu’l-Asmá" (Commentary on the Súrih of Joseph). If you're familiar with Babism this is the book that the Bab revealed to Mulla Husayn to fulfil his prophesy of being the Bab. This would have been before Tahirih became a Babi.

If you're still confused, "Qurratu'l-`Ayn" means "Solace of the Eyes" or perhaps "Beautiful One" (I'm sure it doesn't mean aesthetically btw). As you can imagine, during such flowery speach, words would be re-used. -- Tomhab 20:23, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

O Son of Being! Make mention of me, on my earth than in my heaven I may remember thee. Thus may mine eyes and thine be solaced. - Qurratu'l-Ayn is used in a similar way, the Bab is the solace to our inner eye, as He is the one whose coming we have awaited. Tahirih is given the same name to represent her purity. It is like how there are many Johns in Jesus' time 71.221.141.225 04:02, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

dream?

didnt tahirih became a babi because of dream about the bab? - --Cyprus2k1 10:25, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes see the Dawn-breakers pg 82 and here. -- Jeff3000 14:05, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Arabic

Farsi Wikipedia gives spelling طاهره , but I'm not sure that that's strictly Arabic... AnonMoos 02:42, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

That text reads Qurratu'l-`Ayn and not Tahirih. -- Jeff3000 03:00, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

قرة العين‎ reads Qurratu'l-`Ayn, while طاهره reads Táhirih. However, I'm hesitant about adding طاهره to the article as it stands now, since I'm not sure that طاهره is a real Arabic form (as the article claims now) -- though it is derived from Arabic... AnonMoos 03:05, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

The Persian article linked from this page has a title of Qurratu'l-`Ayn, but is suggested to be merged with an article titled (I think) Tahirih Qurratu'l-`Ayn, so this text (طاهره) might be Tahirih, but as I can't read or write Persian/Arabic I'm not sure. -- Jeff3000 03:04, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

If you can't read Arabic script, then why did you take it upon yourself to tell me something which is not in fact the case??? If you try to interpret طاهره as a pure Arabic form, it would literally mean "his pure one", where "pure one" would be masculine in form. So something beyond ordinary Arabic seems to be going on, but I'm not sure what... AnonMoos 03:10, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

I asked my family who can read arabic/persian script. Apparently I gave the wrong script to read. Baha'i texts translate Tahirih as "The Pure One" -- Jeff3000 03:13, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

See this site: [1]. It translates طاهره (Tahirih) as "pure". It's an Arabic translation, so I'll update the page now. Cuñado - Talk 17:54, 26 September 2006 (UTC)\

Tahereh is a common name in Iran (spelled: طاهره), I don't see why it should say "Arabic" rather than "Persian". Also, if the academic spelling is "Táhirih" then that's fine. However that implies incorrect pronounciation from my (Iranian) point of view --Rayis 22:26, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

"Táhirih" (طاهره) is the feminine form of "Táhir" (طاهر). Although both are names common in Iran, they are Arabic names (as an aside, letter ط is one of several letters which signify a Persian word as being Arabic of origin — Arabic to modern Persian is like, say, French to English). In the present case, "Táhirih" is the title of Fátimih Baraghání, conferred to her by Bahá'u'lláh at the Badasht conference. This is one of the reasons why the name Táhirih is very pupular amongst Bahá'ís of Iranian origin. Since in both Arabic and Persian "Táhirih" is written "طاهره", I propose that "Arabic: طاهره" be made into "Arabic and Persian: طاهره". --BF 23:40, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

(Arabic - English dictionary "Al-mawrid Al-Quareeb") say : طاهر = clean pure immaculate طاهِر chaste modest virtuous pure.

In arabic we say "ماء طاهر او طهور" and mean " a pure water" and we say "أمرأة طاهرة" and mean "a modest women".

For better understand about the origin or source of this word go to this link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taharah_%28Ismaili_doctrine%29

My Persian is not good but I know that "طاهر" in Arabic = " پاك Pack" in Persian.

In Iraq we know "طاهره" with the name "قرة العين - Qurratu'l-`Ayn", she lived for sometime in a small house in the "Kadomia : الكاظمية : كاظمين" district in Baghdad (the district where I live).

And there are many Iraqies historian wrote about here, one of them "المفتي أبو الثناء الآلوسي" a Sunni clerk which the governor "والي" of Baghdad forced (imprison) Tahereh to stay in his house for tow month and he say in his book "that people claim that Tahereh is a bad women who call for make a "free sex between men and women" but I talk with her for many times during the tow month she lived in my house and not seen anything of these claims from her".

Sorry my English is not good so I can't make a fine translate, but here is the whole paragraph about Tahereh maybe someone can translate it :

" وكان مما ذكره عنها قوله: (... وهي ممن قلدّت الباب بعد موت الرشتي، ثمّ خالفته في عدة أشياء منها التكاليف فقيل لانها كانت تقول بحل الفروج ورفع التكاليف بالكلية. وأنا لم أحس منها بشيء من ذلك مع أنها حبست في بيتي شهرين، وكم من بحث جرى بيني وبينها رفعت فيه التقية من البين. والذي تحقق عندي أن البابية والقرّية - يقصد أتباع قرة العين - طائفة واحدة يعتقدون في الأئمة نحو اعتقاد الكشفية - يقصد الشيخية - فيهم ويزعمون انتهاء زمن التكليف بالصلوات الخمس وان الوحي غير منقطع فقد يوحى للكامل لكن لا وحي تشريع بل وحي تعليم لما شرع قبل ونحو ذلك، وهو رأي لبعض المتصوفة... وأعظم أسباب ضلالتهم النظر في كلام الرشتي وشيخه الأحسائي مع عدم فهم مقاصدهما منه وحمله على ما هو بعيد عن الدين المحمدي بمراحل ولذا أكفرهم أصحاب هذين الرجلين أيضاً على ما سمعته بأذني من كبارهم...)"

source: لمحات اجتماعية من تاريخ العراق الحديث : الدكتور علي الوردي

And there are other reference source about Tahereh (in arabic and from people who saw her and talk to her) but it need a long time and efforts so I am sorry in spite of that Tahereh were an important women and she deserve a good and complete article about her.

Foreign sources?

Recently MARussellPESE removed a German language publication reference about Tahirih from the main articla on the basis that "Foreign language references are strongly disouraged". For an alleged world citizen to be concerned about things "foreign" is very peculiar for a professed Baha'i.

However the guidelines for Wikipedia state "Because this is the English Wikipedia, English-language sources should be given whenever possible, and should always be used in preference to other language sources of equal caliber. However, do give references in other languages where appropriate. If quoting from a different language source, an English translation should be given with the original-language quote beside it"

The problem for MARussellPESE is that Soraya Adambakan's, study Qurrat al-’Ayn. Eine Studie der religiösen und gesellschaftlichen Folgen ihres Wirkens, is the most important study ever published about Tahirih and stands head and shoulders above anything else ever previously published and there is therefore nothing else of equal caliber (pending perhaps Abbas Amanat's forthcoming study on Tahirih, next year). Not only that but the author is not a Baha'i, rather she is Muslim and undertook much of the research in Iran and used extensively primary archival materials.

However the whole Wikipedia article is rather dull and inadequate and leaving out this reference, and leaving in rather weak ones like Martha Root and Nakhjavani's novel is probably never going to bring it to life. (Steve Cooney)

May well be. But WP's standards are rather high and foreign language sources can't be verified by most editors. All we have, for the moment, on the authenticity of this is your assertion. We look over each others' shoulders here, so if we can't get at least another editor to confirm this, then it has to stay out. MARussellPESE (talk) 23:12, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

birthdate

it says her birthdate is uncertain, but both Nabil Azam and Shoghi Effendi say its 1817? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.66.127.119 (talk) 20:25, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

wrong information

in the article it says

brother, Mulla Muhammad-Taqi Baraghani, was also a mujtahid

it was her PATERNAL UNCLE who was Hájí Mullá Muhammad-Taqí Baraghání —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.3.88.158 (talk) 15:44, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

her family

in the article it says that her husband was called Muhammad ibn Muhammad Taqi , however in Persian the term "ibn" is not used. His name was Mullá Muhammad Baragháni. Also Táhirih had two sons and one daughter.