Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Azeri genocide

Azeri genocide

Azeri genocide (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

• Delete Poorly sourced, virulently anti-Armenian in tone article with absolutely no historical basis to it and one which is not even recognized by a single genocide scholar (the PACE source is inadequate and highly misleading as it is a non-binding resolution and one which the Council of Europe doesn't officially recognize in any capacity). --Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 01:45, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Check the article again ,historical basis is well explaned.85.105.157.122 (talk) 14:10, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

• Delete per Marshall. VartanM (talk) 04:55, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

• Delete. Where to start? No real references. Croissant's book was never referenced, simply placed under references. The bibliography, which appeared to be what someone found after a 3 minute google search, had books not referenced in the article. My 17yr old son does a better job of historical research than this! --Kansas Bear (talk) 05:02, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

No real references?You should check the article ,too.If you have time except deleting the citations or a section.85.105.157.122 (talk) 14:10, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Can you read? You should learn how REAL historical research is done. Typing something doesn't make it a fact! --Kansas Bear (talk) 04:40, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

• Delete. politically motivated POV propagand. no reliable sources. Gazifikator (talk) 05:39, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

• Delete. No reliable sources. Sardur (talk) 06:50, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

• Comment Wikipedia has a very low threshold on what genocide is. If there are articles like Greek genocide, Assyrian Genocide, or Dersim genocide, then why the article about Azeri genocide cannot exist? Grandmaster 08:15, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

If you want to propose the deletion of the Dersim genocide article, then I would support that proposal as long as its contents, with the genocide allegation, were to be merged into the Dersim rebellion article. Meowy 16:03, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

I won't bother. The word genocide has already lost any meaning, as it is used in wiki to describe any massacre. If that's the way they want it, so be it. To me, genocide is an extremely politicized term, and the existence of the above articles is a good demonstration of this fact. Grandmaster 07:48, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Well, maybe at some future date I will propose its deletion. It is precisely to stop the word "genocide" loosing its correct meaning that articles like this "Azeri genocide" article (or the deleted "Kurdish genocide" one) should not be allowed to remain. Meowy 19:41, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

• Delete I tried prodding this article but that didn't work. I'm glad others noticed it's violation of NPOV. Themfromspace (talk) 08:16, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

• Comment Double Standards. What is your obsession with Turks? Greek genocide, Assyrian Genocide, and Dersim genocide already exist on Wikipedia even though Dersim genocide has no document or recognition.However Azeri Genocide was recognized by Council of Europe and Azerbaijani Government.It is ironic, Armenians allways complain about denial of Armenian Genocide by Turkey but they deny Azeri Genocide.Abbatai (talk) 10:44, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

• I believe this article does warrant inclusion. The all references given is reliable source in my opinion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Justice34 (talk • contribs) 14:28, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

• This AfD nomination was incomplete (missing step 3). It is listed now. DumbBOT (talk) 14:37, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

• Delete all material that doesn't come from reliable sources per WP:V. The "double-standards" thing is a fair comment, but see WP:OCE for Wikipedia's view on that.—S Marshall ^Talk/_Cont 15:05, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

• Delete Poorly sourced, no scholarly source agrees with the article claims.--St. Hubert (talk) 15:40, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

• Delete. This article, together with its talk page, is a piece of propaganda. This article should go the same way as the late, unlamented, "Kurdish Genocide" article (Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kurdish genocide (WWI)) (though even it had one source, unlike this particular article). Meowy 15:53, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

This one also has a source, the decree of Azerbaijani president, referring to the massacre in Khojaly as a genocide. Also a declaration of some members of PACE, who also believe that Khojaly was an act of genocide. It is exactly as many sources as the articles about other genocides have, but no one cares about those other articles, and this one is proposed for deletion. I understand that the existence of other poorly sourced articles does not justify the existence of another poorly sourced article, but a fair treatment would be nice. Otherwise this place turns into the mouthpiece of anti-Turkish propaganda. It is no good that some well organized ethnic communities managed to impose their POVs into wikiarticles. Something needs to be done to maintain objectivity. Grandmaster 07:48, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Everyone those with a half a brain cell know that the claimed PACE document is trash which was an answer to this draft tabled on 24 April 2001 by Jirousova (Czech Republic) on the day of the commemoration of the Armenian Genocide. That PACE document which you are referring to was tabled on 26 April 2001 by Mehmet Ali Irtemçelik (Turkey), who is known apologist and the voice of the Turkish government in Germany. 2/3 (20 out of 30) of those who have signed that draft were either from Turkey or Azerbaijan. Several of the remaining are also known propagandists pushing the inclusion of Turkey in the EU (and who oppose the recognition of the Armenian genocide). For example, Tadeusz Iwinski or Younal Said Loutfi. The content of that draft is so ridiculous (not to say, the surprise of the majority of PACE members when they saw anyone even supporting such a draft) that even Azeri lobbyist in the US only refer to the draft and don't dare raising it's content. (for instance that On 26 February 1992, Armenians massacred the whole population of Khodjaly and fully destroyed the city.) As for well organized community if I were you I would not bring up the word well organized anywhere. If you want to oppose it's deletion, go ahead, otherwise stop WP:SOAPboxing. VartanM (talk) 18:01, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

• Keep If the genocide didn't happen where is the Azeri population of Yerevan and Karabakh.Please keep the article.As some said denying is killing twice!193.140.194.148 (talk) 21:41, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Well, thank you for that rambling trip to nowhere. And your comments on... anything relevant would be? Personal opinions and beliefs are not a valid rationale for deletion. If you believe it notable, improve the article yourself (mainly through neutral sourcing - which, no offence, I'd love to see you attempt). +Hexagon1 ^(t) 02:30, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

And where is the Armenian population of Baku and Nakhichevan? Are you able to discern ethnic cleansing from genocide? --Vacio (talk) 09:38, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Are you able to discern a relevant topic from an irrelevant one? This is a deletion discussion for a badly written POV article. Not the Hague tribunals. +Hexagon1 ^(t) 13:29, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

• Delete, this is a no-brainer. Hideously POV, and unsourced. Completely unsalvageable. +Hexagon1 ^(t) 02:35, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

• I do not understand the double standard Wikipedia has when it comes to Armenians. Is it because of turcophobia, racism, religion or because considerable amount of moderators in this site are Armenians? Has any international court recognized Armenian Genocide? Not to my recollection. Yet, it is stated in this site as if the events of 1915 were indeed genocide when there is still a considerable amount of debate going on over the topic and many world renowned historians reject the thesis, I repeat it is merely a thesis at this stage. I would like to see some objectivity in this site with regards to history and historians and if you are going to be deleting Azeri Genocide then you should also be deleting Armenian Genocide and all other made up genocides. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.115.14.179 (talk) 07:35, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

• Keep, purely for fairness and NPOV. It's interesting to see Armenian editors nominating or overwhelming voting to remove articles on other nation's genocides, or simply trying to remove facts, photos or references from articles like Khojaly massacre in past. Why? If not for POV pushing and OR, then for what? Atabəy (talk) 08:03, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

I'm Armenian?? Amazing! My apologies to Vartan for interrupting, but I couldn't resist.... --Kansas Bear (talk) 03:54, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

WP:WAX doesn't mean we get to keep pages because other (inapropriate) pages exist, it means we should go ahead and delete any particular page if it doesn't fit in with the policies and guidelines. Themfromspace (talk) 09:30, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Not much evidence is needed anymore to understand your true purpose here, but sometimes it helps when you reiterate your purpose for others to witness. VartanM (talk) 18:01, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

VartanM, you should have asked that question to yourself, and perhaps, this ArbCom based on your false accusations against an editor, only due to his ethnic background, would help refresh the mind. The only thing that does not make sense to truly neutral mind is when someone extensively advocates recognition of genocides suddenly tries to hide, fight off, remove, rename some factual evidence from encyclopedic articles. Isn't that part of nationalistic battleground editing? Ask yourself, why would Armenian editors get involved in nominating every Azeri massacre articles or images for deletion or removal, but we would rarely ever see a reverse trend? Atabəy (talk) 01:28, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

And by reverse trend do you mean when you were denying the Armenian Genocide[1] and have now voted to keep this trash? VartanM (talk) 02:09, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

I have a suggestion, perhaps you might want to translate this article to az.wiki before it gets deleted from here. VartanM (talk) 02:14, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

• Delete, per WP:OR. --Vacio (talk) 09:38, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

• Keep, then go ahead delete the socalled genocides why the only matter is Azeri Genocide for those people?Abbatai (talk) 17:35, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Feel free to nominate other genocide articles for deletion. Otherwise you were already told about WP:WAX VartanM (talk) 18:01, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

But this one did happen and has sources and recognition.Abbatai (talk) 20:03, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Just because you think it happened, doesn't mean it did. It has no valid sources or recognition and is a fabrication. Meowy 00:02, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

The last phase of a genocide is denial as some of you are doing now.85.105.157.122 (talk) 14:02, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

• Keep seems notable and Keep worthy to me.--Judo112 (talk) 17:38, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

• Delete. As currently framed, the entry is a propaganda panflet infringing virtually every content policy we have. Maintainability issues make me skeptical of other possible alternatives: some entries are simply not worth the vast amounts of time they demand from non-partisan editors to assure compliance with our policies. – To avoid future problems, I recommend protecting both capitalizations from re-creation, to ensure re-creation through deletion review only. - Ev (talk) 20:05, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

• Keep. Atabay has a very good point up there about the Armenian editors here but noone including VartanM dares answer him other than indicating that what is provided here is trash or propaganda. It is really very sad and disturbing to see that this Turcophobia of some small minds is taking over Wikipedia.

So called Armenian Genocide is just a thesis but Wikipedia is reflecting it as a real and committed genocide through brainwashing young minds just because Armenian editors want it that way. Political acception because some countries have hidden agendas against Turkey does not mean international recognition. Historians decide that. Oh sorry according to some, it is just how things are done, I just forgot, my apologies. There are many world renowned historians disagreeing with the thesis and then accused or labelled of being pro-Turk and that is not propaganda? So sad. Just because the editors are Christians or Armenians allow them to reflect debateable issues as happened but when it comes to indicating a massacre with proof, it is propaganda. Go on then, make new genocides up like Greek or Assyrian and continue to publish them. Show to world how credible wikipedia information is. Two wrongs do not add up to one right some say up there. Azeri Turks in certain regions did not vanish from earth's space just in one night. Whether that makes it a genocide, that I can not decide. Historians are here to do that, not Armenian editors. Therefore I urge from those who think that just because there are other articles in this site in similar positions to be deleted does not mean that this one should be kept, to be that sensitive to those debateable articles as well. If there are other articles in similar positions about genocide thesis that you agree up there, then where is your critism to those articles. Please guys try to be a little bit objective at least. That is the least you can do.ECDS (talk) 09:00, 13 March 2009 (UTC)