Talk:Ireland national rugby union team

Flags and shamrocks

There is a discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Rugby union as what symbol should be used to represent Irish rugby union. If you have an opinion then follow the link and scroll to the bottom of the page.GordyB 22:14, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

The upshot of the vote was that a Shamrock should be used. I have used the image from the article of the same name. . To use the image copy / paste the following code. The '20' defines the size of the image, to rescale it use a higher / lower number.GordyB 14:17, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

[[Image:Irish clover.jpg |{{{1|20}}}px]]

Here's the official Irish flag: File:IRFU-Flag.jpg Ciais 11:44, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

We are currently discussing this, see Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Rugby_union at the bottom.GordyB 14:05, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Why has Eddie O'Sullivan's name got this shamrock flag beside it in the user box? If trying to indicate his nationality, surely the tricolour would be more appropriate? If not, it's kind of superfluous - but I don't want to just delete it without asking. Any thoughts? Sorcha niri 14:00, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

There's been a long-satinding agreement to use the shamrock to represent Ireland at rugby union. Using national flags creates many anomalies.GordyB 14:04, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

I understand that and completely agree that it makes the most sense :) However, IF it is his nationality that is being indicated here, it's not strictly a rugby-related matter - his nationality is Irish. TBH, don't really see that it's relevant, so would suggest deleting it altogether. Sorcha niri 16:51, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Sporting nationality is different from actual nationality, otherwise Northern Irish, English, Scots and Welsh players would all have union jacks. Putting a tricolour next to him would mean that other players would get either tricolours or ulster banners next to them. This creates many anomalies such as what to do with players who were not born in either territory and play for Ireland on the basis of ancestry or residence. It also implies that the existance of two different Irish teams. Putting nationality markers next to coaches can be very significant when the coach is not from the country that he coaches.GordyB 22:35, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Why don't we use the same four provinces flag the IRFU use and is shown at every single game? Look at any game and you'll see it right next to the other nation's flag? I think this whole debate is stupid and only shows that some here get a kick out of making their opinions matter. It has NEVER been a problem in Ireland or abroad but some here make it a problem now. --Jorgenpfhartogs (talk) 23:38, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

Seconded. The shamrock logo has also been used; I honestly prefer the four provinces flag, but for the love of God, get some sort of flag put back on the articles because this is now a complete burecratic farce. Syferus (talk) 11:49, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Colours

I added the change colours see http://www.irishrugby.ie/460_6968.php for reference. The green that we use seems to be very bright - any comments? Sissco 14:19, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

i changed the kit colours to the new offical dark green kit as shown in link [1]Caomhan27 04:34, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Anthems

According to a Press Association report today, no anthem was used for Ireland rugby matches prior to the introduction of Ireland's Call in 1995. This is in contrast with the claim in the article that: "When Irish internationals were played alternately in Belfast and Dublin, the British national anthem "God Save the Queen" was played for matches in Belfast and the national anthem of the Republic of Ireland "Amhrán na bhFiann" was played for matches in Dublin - uniquely in the international rugby community no anthem was played at away games." --beano 00:44, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Just found this " Before 1995, God Save the Queen had been played at Irish rugby matches in Belfast, and the Irish anthem in Dublin." however putting the reports together I think this refers to league matches, not internationals. beano 01:02, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

It does refer to internationals, when Ireland played home internationals in Belfast they played GSTQ and when in Dublin they played the Soldier's Song. When they played away from home no anthem was played. Post 1995 though Irelands Call has been played at home along with the national anthem and when playing away Irelands Call is the only anthem representing the Irish Rugby Team

Support for Ireland

The article claims that both unionists and nationalists support the Ireland team. I think this is a little naive. Nationalists, of course, would support a united Ireland team and moderate unionists also support the team.

I don't believe that hardline unionists do nor loyalists either. IMO walking round certain areas of Northern Ireland wearing an Ireland shirt would invite stares and / or abuse.GordyB 14:12, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

• Since when does support for a Rugby team relate only to the wearing of a shirt? The facts are that some Unionists have actually played for the Ireland national team (Tyrone Howe(UUP), Trevor Ringland (UUP) and Davy Tweed (DUP)) and of those I think most would desribe Tweed and the DUP as hardline unionists. The article does not claim that everybody on the island of Ireland supports the national team but I think you'll find large numbers of people in England who do not support the English national team either Dodge 11:37, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

UUP=moderate unionists, Tweed=an exception.GordyB 11:59, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Any sources/references for your opinion? Dodge 12:13, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

I'll try to google one.GordyB 16:43, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

From personal experience, I think you're actually more likely to find a unionist wearing an Ireland rugby shirt in Belfast than a nationalist. Rugby is seen by some as an English sport in Ireland, and hence was traditionally boycotted by nationalists who would rather support Gaelic games, though I think it is image has started to decline amongst nationalists in recent years. I believe it is a similar situation for Irish cricket Jonto 16:16, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

I was talking about the harder line unionists and loyalists rather than mainstream unionists, not many Northern nationalists like English sports as you say.GordyB 16:43, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

English sports? Ridiculous comment. I'd say there are more Man Utd or Liverpool fans in nationalist areas than all other sports team together. Its a fact that not many people, period, actively support the rugby team but those who do come from all areas of the island. What can you possible query about it? Dodge 17:47, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't think I need remind you of the GAA's opinion of 'barracks sports'. Soccer is less of an issue than cricket or rugby union because it is a mass sport rather than a favoured pastime of the British ruling class. Irish nationalists also tend to support Catholic teams, Man City and Everton have had succesful eras in the past but never got much of an Irish nationalist fan base.

Rugby union is in Ireland like most countries a largely middle class sport. In Northern Ireland this tends to mean 'moderate unionist'. Most unionists that like rugby union will support Ireland but a minority support Scotland or see Ulster as a de facto Northern Ireland team. The claim that the Ireland rugby union team is something that unites nationalists and unionists is broadly true but is a bit naive.GordyB 20:09, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Agin, have you any sources for your claim that some rugby fans in Ulster support Scotland over Ireland? It seems to me you're trying to make a much bigger deal of this than it actually is. Irish nationalists DO NOT consider the religous affiliations of any club when supporting them (bar Celtic obviously). Even the examples you mentioned are wrongas Everton are the catholic team but Liverpool having far more fans here. Dodge 20:57, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Liverpool are the Catholic team. Ever noticed that both Man Utd and Liverpool have tended to buy players from Celtic whereas Man City and Everton have tended to buy them from Rangers? Sources will be posted tomorrow.GordyB 21:00, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

OK we're going off topic here. The point remains those clubs are not supported because of their non existant religious persuasions but because of their success. No other reason. Getting back to rugby and your opinions Dodge 22:04, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Poll held on Ulster Scots site [2] , similar themes [3] and [4] (not the main article - just one of the comments). The support for Scotland is anecdotal i.e. a friend of mine's cousin is from Belfast but chooses to support Scotland even against Ireland. There's no need to go into detail in the article about exactly who unionists support, the vast majority of them support Ireland but we should not claim that they all do so. GordyB 09:33, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

So you reject me giving Davy Tweed as an example but you then give your mate as an example. Suggest you leave this topic alone as its obvious you have an agenda Dodge 10:13, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

I didn't give him as a source I said it was anecdotal and didn't see a need for its inclusion. I also gave three sources, how many more would you like, As for partiality I wrote half this article, what did you contribute?GordyB 10:40, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

A poll on Ulster Scots and Everything ulster is in no way unbiased, so your sources lack credibility. I agree the article shouldn't state everybody supports the Rugby team but the team does receive widespread support in Northen Ireland, so why not mention it. particulalry when you've written an article on the flag issue? How does your contribution equate to your impartiality? Dodge 12:35, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

It is a biased source I don't deny it. I'm not saying that it in any way reflects unionist opinion other to prove that particular opinion exists. I did not write the flag and anthem section I wrote something about the four province flag, Ireland's call and the soldier's song. This was expanded from one paragraph into a full blooded section which I later contributed to somewhat. IMO there is no need to go beyond the fact that the team receives widespread support within Northern Ireland, a detailed break-down of unionist opinions towards 'their national team' (or not) is more appropriate in Rugby union in Ireland.GordyB 15:13, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

"IMO there is no need to go beyond the fact that the team receives widespread support within Northern Ireland" Agree 100% Dodge 15:50, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

I've reworked it though I'm not 100% happy with my final version. It is very difficult to write it in such a way as to be true and not misleading. If I say that the Ireland team are the only team to draw support in both Irelands this is untrue because the international rules football team and RoI soccer team do (albeit not so much with unionists but still enough people in NI do to warrant 'widespread') but as it stands it implies that a unionist community exist in the RoI and that the RoI is divided along NI lines.GordyB 16:32, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

This debate is demeaning to all those who partake in it. What has religion got to do with sport? The irony is that most people in N.I., like in any country, are not Christians. If they were the Unionists would not have exploited the nationalists and the nationalists would not have supported I.R.A. reprisals. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.19.80.19 (talk) 14:24, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Oh for goodness sake. Fancy discussing the content of a Wikipedia page on its talk page. I do feel deeply ashamed.GordyB 15:20, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Recent fixture, and Upcoming fixtures lists

Please contribute to the discussion about this at the WikiProject Rugby union talk page here. - Shudda ^talk 22:08, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Players

I added the Players section and also added the bit about the hall of fame - is there a standard way of doing this? I copied the NZ one. - — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.100.59.152 (talk)

Yeah the All Blacks article is a good template (or standard) to use because we know it's FA. I would consider removing the other notable players though, and just having the Hall of Fame members. If you manage to find some information on all of those players though, de-list the section, and have a few paragraphs on them instead (like the ABs article). - Shudda ^talk 22:10, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Divided Ireland

Haven't they played as just ROI and NI as stand alone rugby union nations. Londo06 21:45, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

To my knowledge - no and neither is listed here. NI may have entered a sevens team in the Commonwealth games at some point though. I am 100% sure that they did not at the last games.GordyB 21:49, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

If anything rugby is one of the few things Ireland is united on. I'm not aware of any rugby union teams being split. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.177.240.135 (talk) 13:09, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Northern Ireland

Why don't they just solve the problem at a higher level and arrange a Northern Ireland Rugby team, it would solve a lot of arguments and confusion. I always thought it was a Ireland team with some Northern Ireland players in the team, being English born I never noticed I just thought they were all Guiness drinking Irish Rugby followers and they all sound Irish anyway. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ryangiggs69 (talk • contribs) 00:08, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

That wont happen. There are are already too many matches in the season for professional rugby players. Rugby isn't like football, your body takes a real beating and players need more recovery time. For this reason adding a 7th nation wouldn't be supported by most players, fans or rugby boards. Also, the Irish rugby team was created before there was any partition and has traditionally had players from the North since it was started. It works and the fans are happy, so why change it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.177.240.135 (talk) 13:05, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Succession box discussion

A discussion has been started about the breadth and formatting of succession boxes for national rugby union teams at WikiProject Rugby union. Please see the discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Rugby union#Succession boxes. - Shudde ^talk 22:35, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

World Cup section

The world cup section is fairly horrendously POV. Stifle (talk) 11:59, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Shamrock icon disappeared?

Does anybody know why the {{ru|IRL}} shorthand is no longer showing the neutral shamrock logo but the flag of the Republic of Ireland, which is inaccurate as the Irish rugby team represents both the Republic and Northern Ireland? The 2011 World Cup article looks plain silly with Ireland having no logo as a counterpart to the other nations' flags. Mjefm (talk) 10:47, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Flag of the Irish Republic

The Six Nations table in this article shows the flag of the Irish Republic - which is inappropriate as the team represents Ireland, not the Republic of Ireland or Northern Ireland. Can someone remove it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Donald gadwall (talk • contribs) 23:09, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Lions players

Any reason why Philip Matthews isn't listed?