Talk:Deathgrind

Deathgrind is a less used term for Goregrind

I suggest deathgrind be merged with goregrind, and porno grind also be merged into goregrind. There is no need for two pages, just because someone is at variance with popular opinion. the most commonly used term is Goregrind, and they both refer to the same music.

Deathcore is derived from death/grind?

I really don't see how this is true at all because almost all death/grind bands have no breakdowns(although many death metal bands do), and most deathcore bands do not have songs under 2 minutes as with death metal bands. Therefore, Deathcore is much more of a hybriding of death metal and metalcore(as said on the deathcore page) and really has almost nothing to do with death/grind. So, unless anyone objects I'm going to remove deathcore from derivative forms.

Is there a need?

Is there really a need for this? i mean, i know that there are alot of crossover death/grind bands - i suggest this article to be merged into the Grindcore article.

Napalm Death, for instance, is an obvious death/grind crossover - but, be serious, Haemorrhage are a Goregrind band. There is nothing compareable to those 2 bands thus making this genre a bit confusing.

Darksteel 14:12, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Autopsy and Nile have nothing in common, yet both are death metal bands. "Death/grind" is just as broad. And let's remember, most of Napalm Death's material is not deathgrind but grindcore or death metal. As for merging deathgrind, if this is done, it should be merged into death metal, not grindcore. A band like Exhumed is far closer to early Death than early Napalm Death.

"And let's remember, most of Napalm Death's material is not deathgrind but grindcore or death metal."

Wrong! Napalm Death has never been anything else but Grindcore - they just leaned on Death Metal in some phases of their career (i.e. Harmony Corruption). Musicaindustrial (talk) 11:35, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes i know, but that's (usually) cause of the influences. Death/grind is for me just Grindcore with Death metal elements or the other way around. An album like Napalm Death's Diatribes is Death Metal indeed, but the only album that has a real Grindcore feel around it is Scum. I stay with my opinion that this makes the genre confusing. I think it would be better for it to get a spot in the Grindcore article, like Death/Grind. Deathgrind doesn't appear as a real genre to me. Darksteel 11:05, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

From Enslavement to Obliteration and, if I remember correctly, Mentally Murdered are also grindcore albums. Anyway, to someone unfamiliar with death metal, the entire death metal article and all subgenres are confusing, so should we merge these into thrash metal? I mean, there is not much difference between Sodom and Obituary or Possessed and early Death. You may not think deathgrind is a real genre, but many do, and the article has survived an AFD... Jon138 17:50, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

I agree with this though, early death was influenced by Thrash alot. I don't think Grind should be connected with thrash though. Darksteel 13:36, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Haemorrhage's split with Impaled was a deathgrind album, which is why they're being labelled goregrind and deathgrind. Their albums after Dementia Rex may also be deathgrind, but I haven't heard those, so... Jon138 05:52, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

While it's a somewhat common cross over, and falls into the same areas as Death/Doom (in that the / is improt) because it's two genres merged together but not making anything that isn't totally alien from the original two. Hmm, yeah a lot of the bands on the list seem to actualyl be straight Grind or Goregrind bands, possible that the info would be better suited as a note in the Death and Grind pages. Dace59 14:59, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

I fully agree with this. It is indeed the same case of Death/Doom Darksteel 11:05, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

These bands are in no way "straight grind or goregrind." Listen to Fuck...I'm Dead and early Impetigo. Not even close. Now, listen to Fuck...I'm Dead and Barnes era Cannibal Corpse. The difference? Song length. The raw, simple hardcore punk of grindcore is the only thing separating it from death metal, as both genres use growled vocals and high BPM. Jon138 05:52, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

But really, is there a need to make such small pages just maybe because a (minor) influence in them? I think not. I do agree it happens a lot and that the song length for grindcore is usually shorter, but still i go with it that it should be merged in both the Death Metal and Grindcore pages. As i have said, i think this only gives more confusion. Darksteel 11:05, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

It "only gives more confusion" if you're unfamiliar with grindcore and death metal. While deathdoom, for the most part, only brought growled vocals to doom metal, deathgrind changes the entire sound of both genres. Technical riffs and complex song structures are alien to grindcore, and the song lengths and lack of solos is rarely found in death metal. Jon138 17:50, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Yeah i know, but people looking up this stub are probably unfamiliar with this, so that's why i said that. There's really no need for this, i don't even call it a real genre, to say something like that. By the way, death/doom is not a real genre it's a crossover. I don't really think there's need for this article as long as nobody's caring about it. Hmm, well, i really stay with what i said. Darksteel 13:32, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

SOAD is not even close to a deathgrind band... Just mallcore. Probably put there by a troll?

Im not sure their is a need for this page either. Those bands listed as Deathgrind could easily fit in other genres and have been listed on other pages in the past. While I agree that death metal and grind can be mixed I dont think this page is really necessary. Halfeatencorpse 01:29, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

I think the explanation is very good. I think it's a good idea to keep this page, but it might need some more info (history etc.).Emmaneul 12:15, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Sources

http://www.anus.com/metal/about/styles/ is viewing deathgrind from another perspective. They say it's death metal without the complex song structures due to grindcore influences.

Deathgrind "Tag": http://www.last.fm/tag/deathgrind http://rateyourmusic.com/genre/deathgrind

not much, but something --Emmaneul 19:09, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

DEATHGRIND has some popularity

http://www.mininova.org/tor/539928 - this torrent is about deathgrind band it had about 1000 downloads —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.228.93.250 (talk) 17:38, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

You're basing popularity on torrent downloads? are you kidding me? I wasn't sure if I could of just deleted your comment but you should at least remove your link there... maybe I could say Underground; although there has been some popularity with the likes of Napalm Death and such... I don't know. −₪ÇɨгcaғucɨҲ₪ ^kaiden 22:55, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

What can actually be done with this page?

Ok, there are two very good sources cited on this page. The statement "Cattle Decapitation, a 'deathgrind' metal band once affiliated with the Locust" is in a very short New York Times listing. And, from the Daily Tar Heel: "The album's 14 songs are all brutal artillery blasts of pure and absolute death metal fury without all those wanky melodic guitar solos. The band's (Pig Destroyer's) own description of its style as "deathgrind" seems perfectly suited."
So based on this, we can say that Cattle Decapitation and Pig Destroyer are both described as deathgrind, and that deathgrind is characterized by "brutal artillery blasts" of death metal without melodic guitar solos. That's all that can be substantiated. This information has already been incorporated into the grindcore article.
The article, however, says this: Deathgrind (also known as death-grind or death/grind) is a mixture of the intensity, speed, and brevity of grindcore and the complexity of death metal. It differs from death metal in that guitar solos are often a rarity, shrieked vocals are more prominent as the main vocal style (though death grunts are still utilized and some deathgrind bands make more use of the latter vocal style), and songs are generally shorter in length, usually between one and three minutes. It is usually the band's aim to play high tempo and atonal music with little to no slower passages. But this style differs from grindcore in the far more technical approach and less evident hardcore punk influence and aesthetics. It is important to note that the genre does not include grindcore groups that later became death metal groups, such as Carcass and Napalm Death, though the latter's latest offerings, The Code Is Red...Long Live the Code and Smear Campaign, may be considered deathgrind. Notable deathgrind bands include Asesino, Assück, Brujeria, Cattle Decapitation[1], Cephalic Carnage, Soilent Green, later Nasum, Pig Destroyer[2], Circle of Dead Children, Rotten Sound, Exhumed, Leng Tch'e, and Impaled."
All of this is original research. Why aren't Carcass and Napalm Death deathgrind? Is it even accurate to say that Napalm Death "became a death metal group"? I don't think it's that straightforward. Why would ND's last two albums be considered deathgrind? It's a mystery, because its just the opinion of an anonymous editor. I like Leng Tch'e, and they are a grindcore band that borrows from death metal (like many grind groups), but I've never heard them referred to as deathgrind by a reliable source.
I'm going to start removing original research, and eventually this article should be redirected to grindcore if more sources can't be found. Aryder779 (talk) 21:31, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Recreation

OK, so this has been recreated by an IP. I'm actually fairly happy with this... give me a couple of days and I'll try and get it into a decent stub state. I think the goregrind page is now a perfectly passable stub (troubled only by people name-dropping bands without sources); I'll keep looking for more sources anyway. I also had a stab at removing all the OR from the pornogrind page; that is unlikely to ever get beyond stub stage, but there are probably enough sources to avoid deletion or merge. Any help as always appreciated. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 12:48, 9 June 2009 (UTC)