Talk:Troll (slang): Difference between revisions

Content deleted Content added

Inline

Revision as of 08:05, 8 August 2009

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Troll (slang) article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3, 4: 14 days

Internet culture Start‑class High‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Internet culture, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of internet culture on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Internet cultureWikipedia:WikiProject Internet cultureTemplate:WikiProject Internet cultureInternet culture articles

Start

This article has been rated as Start-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.

High

This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

WikiProject Internet culture To-do:

Here are some tasks awaiting attention:

Article requests : View all requested internet culture articles
Expand : Pick an article from here or here
Photo : Category:Internet culture articles needing images
Stubs : All stubs are located here
Other : Category:Internet self-classification codes (!?); Try to get YouTube to FA; Tag all articles you find with {{WikiProject Internet culture}}
- See also Category:Internet culture articles needing attention

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Troll (slang) article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3, 4: 14 days

Archives

Index

Archive 1	Archive 2	Archive 3
Archive 4

This page has archives. Sections older than 14 days may be automatically archived by when more than 5 sections are present.

This article has been mentioned by a media organization:

Media Watch (2008 November 10). ""Trolling" the Airwaves". {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |date= (help)

Incoherence

Why is the initial paragraph (the rest of the article being too long and thus unread) worded angrily and incoherently with faulty conclusions? The lack of clarity doesn't outline the basis of trolling very well, that being the essence of trolling being the *pretend assumption of viewpoints taken up strictly to undermine social retardation*. plz correct. also, gay niggers should be ungagged.

Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's not true. Maybe some trolls are trying to "undermine social retardation", but many, if not the majority, simply wish to get their jollies making other people miserable and/or angry, like the schoolyard bully who feels strong by making others feel weak. And in my experience, "gay nigger" is the mark of a troll simply trying to, as the article says, draw emotions from people. So yeah, you just proved the article right.

NIGGERS NIGGERS NIGGERS.

Internet trolling affecting mass media

Jenkem and Jewsdidwtc.com. People believe this shit because major news networks have been trolled. A section in this page debunking these two myths would be helpful.

...the hell? "This shit"? "Major news networks have been trolled"? Would you mind giving us any proof? If it "would be helpful", why don't make it yourself?

Vicious cycles/vicious circles

Vicious cycle is an incorrect usage of the phrase "vicious circle," which refers to a fallacious circular argument as invented by logicians.

And yet someone edited it back to cycle again...

[1]

Help, trolls recently in action!

If you need any proof of there antics and how, they can disrupt a sight then read the links below. You should see what they did on the B.B.C. webs sight, how many were there, I've lost count! Most of their off-topic, malignant flaming has gone, thanks to me and another bloke on another BBC board, but some still remains. The history board was hit by a massive troll-fest that finally lead to some of the members taking a stand against it all. I thought this might be a helpful source of info on trolling and it's effects on a British board. If this is not evidence of trolling, then I dont know what is! I list my recent (May-September) and bitter experiences by category below-

My comrade defines identifying and tackling trolling as-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbhistory/F2670469?thread=2752119

A note from the BBC moderators to the message board-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbhistory/F2670471?thread=2959121

Trolling-

Flaming-

Crapflooding-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbhistory/F2233810?thread=2940281&skip=80&show80

Wilfully off-topic to disrupt-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbhistory/F2233810?thread=2940281&skip=20&show=20 http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbhistory/F2233809?thread=3205979&skip=180&show=20

Read them and find out what hell it was, trolls are a real headache to live with if your a British measage board user!

(Homer slips- 04.14 UTC, Nov' 3, 2006).

Computers Misuse Act (1990)

In the UK case discussed above, it would seem more likely that the troll was locked up for a inciting racial hatred and making indecent images of children, rather than trolling per se. Can we find a citation to an example where somoene was convicted under the CMA for an otherwise non-criminal troll (rather than just appearing to interpret the law)?

Summary & Explanation

The summary should be longer and include more examples of online trolling. There was a version in 2005 which was much longer and comprehensive. Also the intro is too long and cluttered. There is no need to explain the difference between troll fishing and the mythical creature since we're talking about internet trolls. It can be worded much more fluently.

Giveen vs. Timothy Campbell

Timothy Campbell's Guide To Internet Trolls seems to me to be much better thought-out than Giveen's Guide To Internet Trolls. While the latter contains some good ideas, particularly the idea of categorizing trolls, at least one of the posts on the Giveen's page has some of what seems to me to be derogatory and unfair stereotyping, and consists of posts from a variety of members of a group, rather than a coherent essay like Timothy Campbell's guide.

Possible citation source?

I'm just leaving the link here since I'm a wiki newbie and not sure what qualifies a "suitable" example, but there is a bit in the usage section that cites the use of "Do not feed the troll" signs needing an example citation - would this be suitable? [2]. Being a wiki in itself the link should remain permanent for all intents and purposes.

Just thought I'd lend a hand ^^

Great lead paragraph on the article

This is a great edit to the lead. The best lead paragraph I have seen in years, on this article! diff http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Troll_(Internet)&oldid=305012109 Igor Berger (talk) 09:29, 30 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I agree. However, I would put the last 2 sentences under 'usage' since they explain that you should not 'use' the term 'troll' since trolls themselves often try to label their opponents as 'trolls'. Also the third to last sentence already exists elsewhere in the article. Lemmiwinks2 (talk) 00:26, 31 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The version of the lead paragraph you are praising would be fine in a personal essay on internet trolls. But check Wikipedia's policy on "original research" to understand why sentence after sentence expressing the personal experience and opinion of its creator is not appropriate in article space. betsythedevine (talk) 02:58, 31 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I did not make the edit personally, but I believe it is a good edit. If we can wikify and reference the lead it would be great. So is it possible to do so? Igor Berger (talk) 03:02, 31 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I would also like to point out, that in addition to not meeting WP:NOR, this lead also violates WP:NOTHOW. Whether it's "how to deal with a troll" or "how to use the word 'troll,'" it's just not encyclopedic. Daniel J Simanek (talk) 08:25, 31 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well sometimes you WP:IAR and use common sense. Not saying this is the place or the time, each individual decides for themselves. Still Wikipedia is a great twilight zone, if you know what I mean. It is all relative in catch-22 You guys can decide what is best. I said my piece. Thank you very much, Igor Berger (talk) 08:40, 31 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

While more or less ok as something to read, that lead is indeed mostly original research and how-to, essay-like, not encyclopedic. Gwen Gale (talk) 13:42, 4 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Neutrality problem?

The concern troll section is marked as have disputed neutrality. However, there is no discussion here. I'm just really concerned that this might go unnoticed for a while and lower the overall quality of the article. :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.122.180.165 (talk) 00:25, 5 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 47: / Line 47: @@
 :Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's not true. Maybe some trolls are trying to "undermine social retardation", but many, if not the majority, simply wish to get their jollies making other people miserable and/or angry, like the schoolyard bully who feels strong by making others feel weak. And in my experience, "gay nigger" is the mark of a troll simply trying to, as the article says, draw emotions from people. So yeah, you just proved the article right.
+NIGGERS NIGGERS NIGGERS.
 == Internet trolling affecting mass media ==