Talk:Goy

Corruption in English

Is this where what the word means in Hebrew, it has COME to be a derogatory term, just as PAKI (an acronym describing the regions of the nation) has now become in England. I think this discussion should accept it and not try and gloss over it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.77.118.33 (talk) 02:29, 9 December 2006 (UTC).

It's usage hasn't come to be derogatory, though the term is occasionally used derogatorily. Asserting that Goy is an epithet just furthers the slander against a term that's primarily neutral. HKT^Talk 23:23, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

According to the wikipedia page on Guy Fawkes, we get the English word "guy" from that... uh... guy, i.e. "Guy Fawkes". Its at the bottom of the page at then end of the popular culture section. Michael.passman 09:46, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

I thought 'paki' was just a contraction of 'pakistani'? Paul E Nolan 20:48, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

I think he's confusing "paki" with "wog", which has a folk etymology that says it derives from the lettering "WOG" that was on arm bands worn by boatmen on the nile during the british occupation of the region. And I doubt "wog" actually derives from such a source either.

Goy is one of those odd terms that can be used as a slur towards non-jews, but which is rarely able to cause offense as few non-jews spend a great deal of time worrying about their non-jewishness (except for white supremicists for some reason) - so the only people for whom goy could really work as an insult are other jews. Which would make it a common insult were it not for the fact that yiddish and hebrew both have quite a range of derogatory words for when one wants to insult other jews, most of which are more effective insults in general.

Think of it like the term "black" more than anything else - a term that may or may not be a "slur" per se based on its past status as an offensive term and its actual meaning, but which has over time turned into a generally descriptive term that now possesses little or no intrinsic offensive meaning. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.150.19.147 (talk) 18:57, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

The term can be derogatory

The article should stop trying to paint a picture of only including one use of the word, only one interpretation. I can find a multitude of references to goy being used as a derogatory term for non-Jews. Wiki (and all of us) should celebrate the richness of language and culture (particularly the very intersting types of inflection and dig available in Yiddish) by showing everything. Not white-washing.

• http://www.frumsatire.net/2008/06/16/is-the-word-goy-offensive/

Yep. Its rude

Some folks will deny this, tell you how the word means "the nations", etc. but then they'll use it like a curse in the next breath.

...There are a few different ways a sypathetic non jew may be referred to, but anyone who calls you the g-word probably aint your friend.

• http://www.answers.com/topic/goy
• http://www.jewcy.com/userblog/whats_my_place_exactly

Resident Gentile Opinion:

Speaking as a non-Jewish woman who spends a lot of time in the Jewish world…I’ve heard it used a lot of ways. When people say, “What is the goyta doing here?” because I’m in the room, it’s clearly meant in a mean way. It’s offensive, especially because I’m usually there are an invited guest. In my experience, it’s almost always a secular Jew who says it. (Which means I often know more Hebrew than they do.) It’s not a nice term and when I’m referred to as one, it’s clearly meant to make me feel uncomfortable.

On the other hand, I use it to refer to myself too, particularly when I’m in a Jewish situation and someone mistakes me for a Jew. (Easy to do, I wear long skirts, and I’m writing my thesis in Jewish studies, so I know a whole lot about Judaism.) But I say it in a distinctly self-deprecating manner as in, “Nope, I’m the resident goyishe girl.”

I must say, I prefer the term gentile in reference to myself. It seems a lot…nicer and I rarely hear it used in the same tone as “goy/goyim.”

• http://books.google.com/books?id=Fhn57KReNvcC&pg=PA23&lpg=PA23&dq=Is+the+word+goy+derogatory&source=web&ots=Ee6NinzepF&sig=LL8v5GM4d-4J33sexmSA5lU5eUI&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=10&ct=result

...the word goy took on a negative meaning...

TCO (talk) 12:38, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Bullshit. The term is not derogatory, not now, not then. Never. Did you care to read through the archive or the article history? Wikipedia "consensus" has clearly decided that you're wrong. How dare you bother us with such nonsense! —85.178.76.160 (talk) 02:44, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Any term can be used in a derogatory manner. "Goy" is not inherently derogatory. We are always sensitive when referring to or being referred to across identity lines. The word "goy" merely falls victim to the inherent sensitivities stirred up when a Jew makes a reference to a non-Jew. And the sensitive feelings are not one-sided. Jews themselves are obviously made uncomfortable upon hearing a non-Jew referred to as such — no matter the terminology used. It may be so that "goy" makes this reference with less sensitivity than for instance the word "gentile." But the contrast is not great between the word goy and the word gentile. The word goy evokes a more "Jewish" origin. The word is probably more often spoken by religious Jews. The term gentile is more evocative of a secular milieu, more often spoken by non-religious Jews. Bus stop (talk) 14:16, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

I can only report how it's used in my (dutch jewish) family. I don't think derogatory is quite it, but it's not without value either. I suppose the best analog would be how a black person might refer to a white fellow trying (ineptly) to break dance. Or, better yet, you can think of it sort of like WASP. I wouldn't call someone a goy to insult them (mostly because they're unlikely to know the term) but I might say to my mother "the decor was very goys" or "they're so goys, they didn't even invite us in for coffee". Hope that helps. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.50.144.22 (talk) 22:38, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

I've never heard it used in a non-derogatory manner, and I live in a vastly majority jewish-neighborhood. Darkie or Negro are not inherently derogatory on the same argument you're using to prove that Goy is not derogatory. Jewish people can be racist.