Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kenneth McLaren

Kenneth McLaren

Kenneth McLaren (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log • AfD statistics)

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Does not pass WP:N, entire article is just a fork off of Robert Baden-Powell's bio article and sexuality article. Policy is very clear in stating that relationships do not confer notability. No evidence exists to show that Kenneth McLaren is notable in his own right. Please see Invalid Criteria for Notability Nefariousski (talk) 22:56, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

• Delete. It is really difficult to find any independent notability for this guy. There's no obituary in The Times for 1924, which is is a 'major' source for contemporary notability, nor any other specific mention.   pablo_hablo. 23:34, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
• Delete. Any notability that he has is only in relation to his friendship with Baden Powell, he is not independently notable. Off2riorob (talk) 23:32, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
• Keep. This article does need some work, but those who might do that work are being distracted by people questioning references. The main work needed just keeps getting delayed. Certainly McLaren's relationship with Baden-Powell is important, but it has been noticed. His role in Scouting has also been noted. Readers will want to know more about the man who was B-P's Assistant Scoutmaster at the important Brownsea Island Scout camp and who was the first Manager of Scouting immediately after its foundation. I think there are more sources to find about that. There is also much more to say about his role in the Boer War, where he served with Plumer. --Bduke (Discussion) 23:36, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
  • He was an assistant at Brownsea only, one of about 25 others and the managers position appears to have had little authority or any work of note, likely a unimportant position given to him by his friend, there are no details of what happened in this role or when he left or who replaced him or if the post was even continued at all, imo he was a very minor player in the early scout movement, again he is remembered only as a friend of B Powell. Off2riorob (talk) 00:07, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Brownsea. Where do you get the 25 from? There were 6 adults present. One was Quartermaster, one was catering officer, one was cook, one was an instructor from the Coastguard station, one was Percy Everett, Pearson's literary editor who was not there all the time. McLaren was B-P's assistant and is appropriately called Assistant Scoutmaster, with B-P as Scoutmaster. All of what you say about the manager is covered by Jeal - his role, his fights with Peearson's, when he left etc. It is an important part of scouting history. You are hot on wanting sources. Do you have one that he was a very minor player? --Bduke (Discussion) 00:24, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Did I read that right? Are you honestly asking that he be proven "not notable"? Last I checked the burdon of proof is on proving someone IS notable, not the other way around. Someone isn't just assumed to be notable until proven otherwise. Nefariousski (talk) 00:31, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

• The issue is one of Notability. Completely remove any relationship to Baden-Powell (notability is not inherited through relationship) and then ask yourself if on his own merit, does Kenneth McLaren meet WP:N. Can you please give me some examples of what Kenneth McLaren is notable for (that meet WP:N) outside of his relationship to a notable person? Nefariousski (talk) 23:44, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

I thought I did. Role in scouting is not just linked to B-P otherwise we would not have an article on his wife. It is about the movement. Of course, he is not as notable, as Lady B-P, but he is noticed and that is how we define notability. There is also possibly the Boer War. However, I have other things to do. --Bduke (Discussion) 00:24, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

• Keep A minor but interesting personage, who was a significant other to a very important historical figure. I second Bduke's view that there is more to unearth on him. Though not relevant to this debate, I would like to note that the well-meaning individuals trying to scuttle this article are the selfsame who have been twisting themselves into pretzels trying to cover up the dodgy sexuality of Baden-Powell, the founder of the boy scouts, by attempting to delete that article also. The fact that McLaren was B-P's intimate friend for thirty years could not have anything to do with your other efforts to improve Wikipedia, could it guys? Haiduc (talk) 00:41, 3 February 2010 (UTC)