User talk:Mrhorseracer

Welcome!

Hello, Mrhorseracer! Welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions to this free encyclopedia. If you decide that you need help, check out Getting Help below, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages by clicking or using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your username and the date. Finally, please do your best to always fill in the edit summary field. Below are some useful links to facilitate your involvement. Happy editing! Jezhotwells (talk) 19:46, 16 January 2010 (UTC) Getting started A tutorial • Our five pillars • Getting mentored How to: edit a page • upload and use images • create your first article Intuitive guide to Wikipedia • Article Creation Wizard Getting help Frequently asked questions • Tips Where to ask questions or make comments Request administrator attention Policies and guidelines Neutral point of view • No original research Verifiability • Reliable sources • Citing sources What Wikipedia is not • Biographies of living persons List of policies • Three-revert rule • Sock puppetry Copyrights • Policy for non-free content • Image use policy External links • Spam • Vandalism • List of guidelines Deletion policy • Conflict of interest • Notability The community Build consensus • Resolve disputes Assume good faith • Civility • Etiquette No personal attacks • No legal threats Community portal • Village pump Signpost • IRC channels • Mailing lists Writing articles Be bold in editing • Develop an article The perfect article • Manual of style Stubs • Categories • Disambiguation Pages needing attention • Peer review Miscellaneous User name • User pages • Talk pages Clean up: General • Spam • Vandalism Join a WikiProject • Translation Useful templates • Tools • User scripts

Promise

mrhorseracer, Congratulations on successfully taking over the NGSD wiki page. Both matznick and the NGSDCS should be pleased too since by vandalizing our work, references and links, you have monopolized the page for them. Now if you can just get me kicked off wiki, you'll have completed your plan. Sadly, it won't work that way. As long as one of us lives and breathes we will fight to give credit to others who have contributed to NGSD and their conservation. We understand that fear drives you to exclude others and enthrone matznick and the society, and feel sorry for your insecurity, but hurting others isn't the answer. We could have lived side by side in peace, but you won't leave it alone. Very well then. Next let's ask an administrator to make some wiki decisions. Justice will be served.Oldsingerman20 (talk) 17:34, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Promise Part III

Very gracious of you to give others permission to edit. The right is not yours to give. You came onto the article and vandalized the work of everyone who had already contributed. You continue to delete the link to NGSDI. What gives you that right? Why do you think suggested reading has to be published material? Is it because you have published material you want to promote? Another question for the administrator. Is wikipedia about promoting personal gain?Oldsingerman20 (talk) 19:53, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Promise !V

Wow, so now you're exactly specifying what you will accept as though you actually do own the page. You are amazing. First you delete all our stuff and take over the article and now you set the rules. OK, let's play your game: Please define a peer reviewed article. Perhaps you could show us an example of it from your Conservation Society entries.Oldsingerman20 (talk) 21:06, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Promise V

mrhorseracer,

We also want to congratulate you on your tactic of placement of replies during our talks.  By placing the replies in a random manner, they are out of order thus making it harder for an administrator to follow the string.  Smart, very smart.  BTW, the way you are hiding your idenity is curious.  You'll notice I have made no attempt to hide mine.Oldsingerman20 (talk) 21:23, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Promise III

mr, Responding to your reply regarding the facebook and the NGSDI links. I didn't post them. Please refer to history and respond to them not to me.Oldsingerman20 (talk) 22:41, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Welcome Newcomer

mrh, In your last reply to oldsingerman you referred to me as Wendt. Therefore Matznick, bending the rules here will not be tolerated and your actions and history of edits will soon be referred to an administrator for review (see speedy deletion criteria). You have shown ZERO good faith here. While you pretend to police the NGSD page with a NPOV, please review the link to PADS and do the right thing. It offers no valid or practical data on the NGSD and therefore should be removed. Warmly, tomcue2 (aka horseracer)

Welcome Newcomer II

[edit] Per Your Latest Question I'll check PADS link - you might be right. Again, content of article must be verifiable, all editors have the right to question accuracy and verifiability of the content in a neutral point of view - here are two shortcuts you need to be familiar with to be a successful editor WP:RS and WP:NPOVMrhorseracer (talk) 03:11, 11 February 2010 (UTC) Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Tomcue2"

Above I have copied your words to illustrate that you have the right to question things but the speedy removal of olsingerman20 (Don's) contributions is "out of line". Kindly return his work to the page and request verification if you wish like you did to the new editor tonight. It's both proper and shows a measure of etiquette. You cannot do things both ways and still claim to be neutral. FYI, I am very familiar with the WP:RS page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tomcue2 (talk • contribs) 06:06, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Then I will repeat my statement. You have removed all of oldsingerman20's contributions. This is not the work of a successful editor. Put them back and ask for citation or proof like you are suppose to. tomcue2 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tomcue2 (talk • contribs) 15:48, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Number of Singers in captivity

mrhorseracer I had entered 200 as the number of Singers that I felt were in captivity. You deleted that number 2 times without so much as asking and I'd like to know why? I want to show the proper number. Please provide proof as to why the 200 number should have been changed to 300. I don't think there are 300 NGSD in the world's captive population. Show me where they are. If you can't substantiate the change, then I'm going back to 200. Two or three days should be enough time for you to offer up the proof.Oldsingerman20 (talk) 21:05, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

6,000 years old

mrhorseracer, I am methodically going through your work matching what you say to your references. In other words, I am inspecting the validy of your writings. I figure if you felt you had to delete my work, what you replace it with should at least be accurate or as accurate as we can get it considering almost all your references are from more or less the same author. Anyone whose been in the Singer world for over 20 years like my wife and I knows Koler-Matznick has written about Singers. They also know she started the New Guinea Singing Dog Conservation Society. So when you quote one, you quote the other. They are, in our eyes one and the same. There's nothing wrong with that, but we still would like to know why you think your information is more valid than what was in the article prior to your complete deletion and rewrite. I disagree with the amount of time you say Singers have existed and I went the Society page to the New Guinea Singing Dog: Overview as listed in your references. It appears your reference to the Overview page is invalid. I found no reference on the Overview page matching 6,000 years. Please reword, rewrite with the proper reference citing 6,000 years or remove the 6,000 years altogether. I will allow 2-3 days for you to make the corrections before i edit. While reading on the overview page, I read that the captive population was estimated at 300 in 1997. That's 13 year old information. Can't you provide information that is more up-to-date? Thank you, oldsingerman20 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Oldsingerman20 (talk • contribs) 21:35, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Reference #3

mrh, We wanted to read reference #3 which is the New Guinea Singing Dog Forum but do not know where it is located. Is this a book, a newsletter, what? Please advise as to where it can be found. Thank you, Oldsingerman20 (talk) 19:52, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Number in captivity

Your compromise of 300 in 1995 and 200 today is fair and accurate as far as we know. Thank you. osm20Oldsingerman20 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 17:17, 15 February 2010 (UTC).

A better way for vocalization and article construction

<<<Cue, In order to avoid a spat, suggest that we reference the existing sites/links that have quality vocals and not add additional links like you did on 13 April. You are duplicating - I'll fix it for you. Second the PADS does have photos of Singers, which makes it a content relevant.>>>

Horsey, I can find you 100's of sites that contain 1 photo of a Singer which is what the PADS site has. Should I add all of those links? Answer: No. Fact is, there was no relevant information about the NGSD to be gained or learned at the site.

Re the vocalization files, no need to fix things for me. If we can agree I can fix things myself. Simply let me know how you would like them presented and I will be more then happy to park the a/v files on a diffrent server. I could also park some of my own quality audio files on a seperate server and link it. The audio file at your favorite website is not typical imo and I have been around to hear at least 50 different Singers vocalize live and up close. That is likely more then even Matznick herself. Tomcue2 (talk) 12:40, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Re PADS, thin is an understatement. I admittedly am no expert but other Dr Brisbin who is? I have heard enough different Singer's in song to know what they typically sound like and my hearing is fine. Suggest you take a break (from abrasiveness) work on some spatless solutuion to the audio files that you have an issue with. Tomcue2 (talk) 13:22, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

I enjoy chatting with you and I'm glad to see that we have something in common. I am no expert either. I know all about the vocalization study and the NGSD's involved. Seems we rescued a few of those study dogs during that mess we cleaned up in MI. The mess that the "experts" turned their backs on. I should maybe thank them for the opportunity and the experience it afforded me. Although I have not reached my level of incompetence just yet, I learned much from the entended exposure to NGSD's in numbers. Btw, The Peter Principle is a real good read if you have not yet read it. Tomcue2 (talk) 20:19, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

EF, you are confused. Folks with link envy will attempt to delete links of others even though they provide valid and relavant information to an article. I already mentioned that you should add valid info to the article be it a link or factual information. I waited patiently for you to respond to Wiki Editor Chrisrus's request to hear a Singer in song, but alas you dropped the ball. After weeks of waiting for your self proclaimed best and proper solution, I finally provided some sound and even added video yet it somehow does not sit well with you.

I myself am not real big on citations as referencing info from a written or published article doesn't necessarily make it true. I also prefer folks with hands on experience as opposed to a researcher that absorbed a bunch of info from others to form an opinion.

By all means pursue a better way and also be sure to send that Senior Wiki editor my way. I promose to let him or her know who I am and I am certain that you will do the same so that your NPOV will shine brightly.

Best of luck at Maywood. It's tough to handicap there but with your equine expertese, I am confident you will do just fine. Tomcue2 (talk) 02:39, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Revisions

I have undid your removal of the link I added. I initially added it per a Wiki members request (see talk page). Your arguement asking folks to search websites for a/v files is weak. I know that you have great concerns about duplication so would suggest that you focus on the links to your own organization. There are a total of 4. 1) Reference #2 mentions "Overview" yet it links to the "History" page. 2) Reference #4 mentions "Overview" and it does link to the home/overview page. 3) Reference #8 mentions "History" and it does link to the "History" page. 4) External link to the home/overview.

Looks like duplication to me but I am not rude/impolite enough to fix or remove your work. Kindly fix it yourself. Tomcue2 (talk) 04:35, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

The link is back and will stay. I will not be as oblidging as Don. Do please refrain from removing my contributions claiming duplication so that I can refrain from your duplications. Tomcue2 (talk) 13:33, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

As previously stated, fix your own errors before worrying about my work. Also consider having the courtesy of discussing an issue before removing someones contributions which you continue to do. It's common courtesy. You do not own the NGSD article and your organization gets plenty of recognition. If arbitration is what floats you, feel free. Tomcue2 (talk) 18:59, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Mrhorseracer – In your post two days ago, you threatened me with arbitration and now you want to try and reason with me? And lets go back to your arrival here where you completely and immediately decimated all of Mr Ehrlich's (oldsingerman20) contributions with no prior warning or discussion. Mr Ehrlich whom you know has as much knowledge of the NGSD as anyone on this planet and was caring for and learning about and studying the NGSD long before your leader knew a Singer from the sewing machine. You totally disrespected the man. You hide behind the published literature premise to reinforce your neutral point of view that you keep harping on. We are all well aware that only one person has extensive published info. Lastly, your organization is linked to 4 separate times on the page and incorrectly in one. If you want to go to one link for your organization I will be happy to oblige your request. I might even entertain one of your options if you will undo all of the work that you wiped off of the page on oldsingerman20. Do not waste any more of my time trying to convince me to leave 4 links to your organization with only 1 to ours. I'm not interested in your opinions or the NPOV that you see. I have not tinkered with one contribution of yours so my request of you is really quite simple. Have that same respect. Tomcue2 (talk) 19:14, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

You said: Cueball. Please respond to my suggestion.--Mrhorseracer (talk) 01:49, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

I already did respond. Please read my prior response 4/21/10 at 19:14. Read it a few times. If it still is not clear, just read the last two sentences. I'm confident it will sink in. Tomcue2 (talk) 05:38, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Cueball. Please respond to my suggestion - simply pick an option or state none of the above and I'll pursue it from there. Also arbitration with an independent editor is not a threat - it is a way to develop a solution--Mrhorseracer (talk) 18:20, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Liz....I took your promise to get an arbitrator involved as a threat. You have now managed to attract a third person who does not agree with your deleting peoples work at the drop of a hat. Add a video file of your choosing in any manner that you see fit. You do not need my permission to do that as I am not the self proclaimed owner of the NGSD page nor am I the type to remove someone else's contributions. The external link I added stays as far as I am concerned. As you labeled me as one to wager, I would wager that Chrisrus, oldsingerman20 and Inugami-bargho will agree. It's what the external links are for which is to take you to a site outside of Wiki that provides relavant and accurate information. If you opt to start treating peoples contributions with a measure of respect, I will promise to let you be the one to edit the NGSD page and add details of an upcoming expedition to the PNG highlands to search for new bloodlines. If you are a writer or reporter, I will even let you be the one to write the article. This way you can reference your own work to validate your edit. Tomcue2 (talk) 20:26, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

I saw that you decided to just add your sound file as an added link. You even showed respect of others and did not delete their contributions. You are to be commended and are well on the road to an actual neutral point of view. Speaking of points of view, I need your opinion on something. It involves the NGSD Ethogram. Please review the list of 16 foundation Singers on page 4. Of the 16 only 14 have birth dates listed. Darkie only has his year of birth listed. That however is due to Taronga Zoo losing/destroying the records. In Morgan's case there is an ISIS # but no birth date at all. My question to you is, do you think it's a typo or an omission by design? If by design, theorize on the possible reasons for this. Tomcue2 (talk) 23:54, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Source of the sentence?

Hello, according to the history of NGSD, your replaced the old reference of this sentence with the current one: No confirmed specimens had been sighted for years, but recently at least one animal was seen by local guides at Lake Tawa. reference:Helgen, K.M. 2007. "A Taxonomic and Geographic Overview of the Mammals of Papua." Pp. in the Ecology of Papua (Ecology of Indonesia Series, Volume VI, Part One) (Marshall, A.J. and Beehler, B.M.) Periplus Editions. Do you have that book and if yes can you check the exact wording?--Inugami-bargho (talk) 14:06, 26 April 2010 (UTC)