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On page page 148 of the book (Page 311 of online book), the author writes ''"Just as the Muhammadan Chamar is styled Mochi so that Sikh Chamar is called Ramdasia"'' |
On page page 148 of the book (Page 311 of online book), the author writes ''"Just as the Muhammadan Chamar is styled Mochi so that Sikh Chamar is called Ramdasia"'' |
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:: It is a book by a Britisher and books depicts writer's view and knowledge on the subject which cannot be taken as proof. |
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The Fact is Ramdasias are weavers and Ravidasias are chamar. Every matrimonial website have different section for both. |
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Revision as of 15:39, 22 May 2010
The Chamar Castes of Punjab
In Punjab, the Chamar is known as Adharmi, Chamar, Jatia Chamar, Rehgar, Raigar, Ramdasia, Ravidasi
(Source: THE CONSTITUTION (SCHEDULED CASTES) ORDER, 1950](C.O.19) (http://lawmin.nic.in/ld/subord/rule3a.htm)
(Source:List of notified Scheduled Castes: http://www.censusindia.gov.in/Tables_Published/SCST/SC%20Lists.pdf
Chamar Castes of Delhi
In Delhi, the chamar is known as CHAMAR, CHANWAR, CHAMAR, JATYA OR JATAV,CHAMAR MOCHI, RAMDASIA, RAVIDASI, RAIDASI,REHGARH OR RAIGAR
(Source:LIST OF SC/ST UNDER GOVT. OF NCT OF DELHI) http://dcnorth.delhigovt.nic.in/SC%20List.pdf
Chamar Castes of Jammu & Kashmir
In Jammu & Kashmir, the Chamar is known as Chamar or Ramdasia
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(Source:The Constitution ( Jammu & Kashmir) Scheduled Castes Order, 1956) http://www.censusindia.gov.in/Tables_Published/SCST/SC%20Lists.pdf
According to the book "The Religious Life of India - The Chamars by G.W Briggs ISBN: 8175361840, P.28", the various subcastes of chamars originated due to different occupations. Quote: "The Chandar does not tanning and is the highest of the subcastes"....."The Ramdasi is a weaver"..."The Bonas are weavers of blankets who are Sikhs".
Admin Help Needed
Additional Proofs that Ramdasias are Chamar - Posted to Chamar discussion page
Glossary of the Tribes and Castes of the Punjab and North West Frontier Province by H.A Rose, IBBETSON, Maclagan (http://www.archive.org/stream/glossaryoftribes03rose#page/n5/mode/2up)
On page page 148 of the book (Page 311 of online book), the author writes "Just as the Muhammadan Chamar is styled Mochi so that Sikh Chamar is called Ramdasia"
- It is a book by a Britisher and books depicts writer's view and knowledge on the subject which cannot be taken as proof.
The Fact is Ramdasias are weavers and Ravidasias are chamar. Every matrimonial website have different section for both.
Panjab castes by Sir Denzil Ibbetson (http://www.archive.org/stream/panjabcastes00ibbe#page/n7/mode/2up)
On Page 269, the author writes: "Similarly, if the Ramdasias do not follow the occupation of Chamars, it is no reason to separate them from that castes. So if a Ramdasia is Julaha, that is a weaver, and if he is 'Bazzaz' that is a draper, his caste remains unchanged. If a Chamar, a leather-worker becomes a Sikh and receives 'pahul' to-day, he at once joins the Ramdasias. The Ramdasias do receive the daughters in marriage of ordinary Chamars, but give them 'pahul' before associating with them"........."The the Ramdasi is still a Chamar".
On page 300, the author writes: "The Sikh Chamar or Ramdasia. — It will be seen from Table VIII A that in the north and centre of the Eastern Plains a very considerable number of Chamiirs have embraced the Sikh religion. These men are called Ramdasia after Gui-u Ram Das, though what connection they have with him I have been unable to discover. Perhaps he was the first Guru to admit Chamars to the religion. Many, perhaps most of the Ramdasia Chamars have abandoned leather-work for the loom ; they do not eat carrion, and they occupy a much higher position than the Hindu Chamars, though they are not admitted to religious equality by the other Sikhs. The Ramdasia are often confused with the Raidiisi oi Rabdasi Chamars. The former are true Sikhs, and take the pdhul. The latter are Hindus, or if Sikhs, only Nanakpanthi Sikhs and do not take the pcikul ; and are followers of Bhagat Rav Das or Rab Das, himself a Chamar. They are apparently as true Hindus as any Chamars can be, and are wrongly called Sikhs by confusion with the Ranidasias".
The Religious Life of India - The Chamars by G.W Briggs ISBN: 8175361840 (http://books.google.com/books?id=PTgsR0xjG4MC&dq=The+Religious+Life+of+India+-+The+Chamars&printsec=frontcover&source=bl&ots=2YBHFq1QVx&sig=xxt0ynAhjQrOkuASylmaGWYNqx0&hl=en&ei=HxWASquUHpWMtgfq17T3AQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2#v=onepage&q=ramdasi&f=false)
On page page 28, the author writes: "the various subcastes of chamars originated due to different occupations. Quote: "The Chandar does not tanning and is the highest of the subcastes"....."The Ramdasi is a weaver"..."The Bonas are weavers of blankets who are Sikhs".
According to the Constitution of Indian (1950 Amendment,)the Official Census of India (Source: THE CONSTITUTION (SCHEDULED CASTES) ORDER, 1950](C.O.19) (http://lawmin.nic.in/ld/subord/rule3a.htm) (Source:List of notified Scheduled Castes: http://www.censusindia.gov.in/Tables_Published/SCST/SC%20Lists.pdf In the state of Punjab, the Chamar is known as Adharmi, Chamar, Jatia Chamar, Rehgar, Raigar, Ramdasia, Ravidasi
In the state of Jammmu and Kashmir, the Chamar is known as Chamar or Ramdasia
Many other states also list the Chamar & Ramdasia as the same (See links)
According to the Official Delhi Government website; the following are the Chamar Castes of Delhi (Source:LIST OF SC/ST UNDER GOVT. OF NCT OF DELHI) http://dcnorth.delhigovt.nic.in/SC%20List.pdf
In Delhi, the chamar is known as CHAMAR, CHANWAR, CHAMAR, JATYA OR JATAV,CHAMAR MOCHI, RAMDASIA, RAVIDASI, RAIDASI,REHGARH OR RAIGAR
Dalits and the Emancipatory Sikh Religion by Raj Kumar Hans from History department of MS University of Baroda (Based on a Draft Paper presented at University of Pennsylvania at the Conference on Dalit Challenges to Academic Knowledge: The Great Paradoxes) http://punjabpanorama.blogspot.com/2009/06/dalits-and-emancipatory-sikh-religion.html
The author writes that "Another dalit Naxalite poet Lal Singh Dil was born in a Ramdasia Sikh (Chamar) family in 1943."
Academy of the Punjab in North America on the poet Lal Singh Dilhttp://apnaorg.com/articles/nirpuma-4/
Born to a low-caste Ramdasia Chamar (tanner) family, Dil was the first of his clan to pass Class X, while doing his daily labour, and go to college.
The well known newspaper columnist writes in his research paper Scheduled Castes in Sikh Community A Historical Perspective http://www.sikhspectrum.com/112007/scheduled.pdf
In the customary scheme, outcastes such as mazhabis (Churah Sikh), balmikis and ramdasias (chamar Sikh)/ravidasias were not allowed to own land.
Perspectives on Sikh Studies by Jagjit Singh (1985, published by Guru Nanak Foundation, Near J.N.U and Qutab Hotal New Delhi 110 067) http://www.globalsikhstudies.net/pdf/per-sikh-studies.pdf
on Page 75 the author writes that "The Ramdasia's or the Sikh Chamars occupt a much higher position than the Hindu Chamars".
On page 77 the author writes that "By changing their name to Ramdasias, the Chamar Sikhs could alter positon in the Sikh case hierarchy, becoming Sikhs and refusing to marry or interdine with Chamar Hindus.
Punjab Government Website, Listing steps for getting a scheduled caste certificate.
In this website, the have listed: "Chamar, Jatia Chamar,Rehgar, Raigar,Ramdasi of Ravidasi, Ramdasia, Ramdasia Sikh, Ravidasia, Ravidasia Sikh" under the same bullet point indicating that all members belong to these castes are the same. http://india.gov.in/howdo/service_detail.php?formid=19
The website http://www.sikhlink.com/Glossary.htm lists the following: "Ramdasia- The Sikh section of the Chamar caste, an outcaste Sikh"
In the website http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?showtopic=44491&st=156, In the forum post 161, a member writes
"Sikhs who were formerly Hindu chamars but converted to Sikhism are referred to as RAMDASIA Sikhs. This is because Sikhism under Guru Ram Das saw the maximum conversion of Hindu Chamars to Sikhism"
In the website http://www.ambedkartimes.com/page14.html on Kanshi Ram
"Mr. Kanshi Ram was born in a Ramdasia ( Chamar ) low scheduled caste, dalit family on 15 March 1934 in village Khawaspur of Ropar district , Punjab, India."
Matrimonial Profiles posted on the internet
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2009/20090614/class-f.htm, a post states:
Alliance for Ramdasia/Chamar/Ad-dharmi 26/5'-3" girl, pursuing B.A. Part I. Computer. Chandigarh family.
http://www.matrimonialsindia.com/main/detl1.php?sl=173609 ..Caste written as Ramdasia/Chamar
Bal537 (talk) 14:38, 10 August 2009 (UTC)bal537
sign your posts
Please remember to sign all of your posts with four tildes (~~~~), you have already been told this many times. Gwen Gale (talk) 13:09, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
is this yours?
Did you make this edit? Gwen Gale (talk) 13:26, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
No, this is was not done by me. The edit was done by someone with the IP address of 122.173.87.9 which comes back to Chandigarh, India. I am in New York, USA. Bal537 (talk) 19:16, 11 August 2009 (UTC)bal537
If you carry on making disruptive edits to Chamar I will block you from editing. You must wait for input on the article talk page. Gwen Gale (talk) 19:19, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
Talkback
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.
Vicenarian (Said · Done) 21:15, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
Reply
I am new to this wikipedia thing and don't know how it all works. Do you want to me to add the topics you have added to the article page or do you want me to review what is posted on the discussion page? Then what?
Reply
I am new to this wikipedia thing and don't know how it all works. Do you want to me to add the topics you have added to the article page or do you want me to review what is posted on the discussion page? Then what?
SandeepSingh1980 (talk) 19:39, 2 September 2009 (UTC)SandeepSingh1980
Population Template
The Chamar caste is the 2nd largest caste in India (after the Brahmins). With a population estimated at 50 million (with about 20 million in the state of U.P alone), they are spread over several North India states.
| State | Population | State % |
|---|---|---|
| Bengal [1] | 999,756 | 1.25% |
| Bihar [2] | 4,090,070 | 5% |
| Delhi [3] | 893,384 | 38.1% |
| Chandigarh [4] | 48,159 | 5.3% |
| Chhattisgarh [5] | 1,659,303 | 8% |
| Haryana [6] | 2,079,132 | 50.8% |
| Jammu & Kashmir [7] | 187,277 | 1.9% |
| Jharkhand [8] | 837,333 | 3.1% |
| Madya Pradesh [9] | 4,498,165 | 7.5% |
| Punjab [10] | 70,28,723 | 28.9% |
| Rajasthan [11] | 2,465,563 | 4% |
| Uttar Pradesh [12] | 19,803,106 | 12% |
| Uttaranchal [13] | 444,535 | 5% |