Talk:Ra

Mangust

I tried to make sense of mangust, and I came up with two possible meanings, perhaps related. First, is mongoose, and second, is a pharoah hat or crown. Since ichneumon is also mentioned, I wonder if mangust might simply be deleted. --Jose Ramos 03:40, 6 Sep 2003 (UTC)

I was wondering what is Ra's symbol?it may be the falcon but I am not sure since it is supposed to be a hat or item. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.33.205.21 (talk) 19:25, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Stargate

Shouldn't it be mentioned on this page that Ra was also a character on stargate. I know it's in the disambiguation page, but the stargate character was based on him (either in part or entirely). I don't know how much the Stargate one was inspired by this one, and I think that it caused some controversy in Egypt (because it depicted Ra as an alien) Tydamann (talk) 18:50, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

It would be nice not to have a trivia section. Maybe if we could find sources about the controversy. Doug Weller (talk) 19:08, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm a big fan of Stargate and can say with reasonable certainty that that Ra is the supposedly the same as this one. As for the controversy, I don't see why. They don't worship Ra anymore, so why should they care? --75.181.67.130 (talk) 18:17, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Because there is an academic community of Egyptologists would prefer that their very serious discipline be kept separate from the image of it depicted in the media. 128.135.121.165 (talk) 01:43, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Sons of Ra

As written in some books (and in Wikipedia too), Horus originally was Ra's son. As wirtten in some book (again, Wikipedia too), Anubis originally was thought to be "the fourth son of Ra". But it`s never written in some kind of list, it`s never clearified how many sons there are, when and where, etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.62.15.163 (talk) 15:34, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Radium

Ra can stand for the element Radium, no? So shouldn't the page for Ra be one of those splitting pages asking a user if he/she meant the deity or the element?

   I guess if you want Radium, you search for Radium, not Ra.

Hebrew Meaning

I am wondering if there's a point to include the hebrew meaning of Amon-Ra to the article. In hebrew "amon ra" means "lots (of) evil". --Anton Adelson, Western Australia 04:42, 20 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Unless you could find a very strong etymological link (which seems entirely possible, since the ancient Egyptian language was likely related to the Semitic languages), this remains just an interesting coincidence and should not be included, in my opinion. --Shotput 19:55, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

Hebrew is quite related to Egyptian, about the same as french is to italian, for example. But I doubt that the egyptians would have called their chief god "evil". I.e. "the sun is Ra" translating as anything like "the sun is evil" is really rather unlikely.

It is possible that the hebrews (whoever they were) added the word into the language, and, resenting egyptian rule, used it derogatively, i.e. "the chief god of them - the egyptians - is evil", thus "Ra" being, to the hebrews, a synonym for "evil", and thus over time, the connection being lost. This is a more likely explanation. ~~~~ 20:57, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

No. The Hebrew expression starts with H and ends with Ayin. The folk etymology cited above is utterly unbelievable.

Regarding the statement, "Hebrew is quite related to Egyptian, about the same as french is to italian": Hebrew is a Semitic language, and Egyptian a Hamitic language; they thus belong to separate langauge families. Even within the same family, Arabic, a fellow Semitic language, is far closer to Hebrew than is Egyptian, and yet Arabic and Hebrew are not inter-comprehensible (as are, to at least a limited degree, French and Italian). The Semitic and Hamitic languages are related, forming the Hamito-Semitic branch of the Afro-Asiatic language phylum. Thus, the relationship between the two is more like that between, say, Gaelic and French, or Farsi and Urdu. That is to say, recognizably related (especially on close inspection), yes; closely similar or inter-comprehensible, definitely no. ---Turmarion, 22:38, 5 Jan 2007

Eye of Ra

The Eye of Ra is facing the wrong direction, the eye shown in the article (left eye of Horus) is actually the Eye of Thoth. The Eye of Ra is the right Eye of Horus.

Sun-god

Some say that Ra is a sun-god and others say he is not. What is true about this and what is not?

Both. It depends on WHEN in egyptian history you are talking about. Egyptian religion covered 3000 years. It changed a bit over this time. --Victim of signature fascism 09:57, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, that makes sense. It would still be nice to know more details, and their sources. In school my teacher told us that we know Ra was a Sun-God bc he has a yellow disc above his head. Wasnt the disc actually carved in stone and yellow painted by scientists bc it was believed to be a sun? Wouldnt that mean that it could actually be anyting?

The truth is that though sometimes the colour wa added afterwards, in some protected corners, of some temples, traces of the original colours still remain. Besides, representations of Ra -and other gods- were also done in papyrus that, thankfully, still survive. There's such a papyrus dated c.1350 BC that depicts Ra in falcon form with seven gods of the Ogdoad. The falcon has an orange disk above his head, so at least by this time he was already a solar deity.Lexie Herrera 13:30, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

The word "Ra" or "Re" means "Sun". His occupation is written in his name! Tutthoth-Ankhre (talk) 20:15, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

At a distant time in Egyptian history, a fella became so angry that he turned himself inside out and became a nuclear explosion. This is the beginnings of Ra and the Sun. Egypt was the first to detonate a nuclear device. They have been baked by the Sun since that time. Gnostics (talk) 22:52, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Hathor and Ra

Hathor was Ra's daughter who happened to be in the role somehow of the EYE OF RA. One point in Hathor's life she was in deep trouble for almost wiping out mankind but Ra stopped her just before anyhting worst happend that she killed yet. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.113.77.68 (talk) 20:58, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

In that story, Hathor is sometimes said to be the same godess as Sekhmet. Tutthoth-Ankhre (talk) 18:37, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Other than budge

Budge's works are ubiquitous but not worth very much- his own old employer, the british museum, has gone so far to denounce them. Additionally, nothing that old should be the basis of an article. Budge's monotheism beliefs are more or less totally thrown out and this article really needs a rewrite with better sources cited. Thanatosimii 07:23, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Budge's work is just fine. He has been attacked in a battle so old, the roots have long been forgotten. Certainly, he shouldn't be the only source, but that means that someone, perhaps you, should add in other perspectives. The British Museum began bashing Budge when his rival took over. That's where that comes from. And from what I read of the feud, it essentially is that Budge didn't believe that the Egyptians were complete idiots because they were pagan.

KV(Talk) 00:55, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Please rethink this, KV. Any feud was a very long time ago and I doubt has much if any impact on modern Egyptologists. It is also important to recall that the position and importance of gods varied over the many centuries of dynastic Egypt. It is ok to discuss the history of the development of modern thinking about Egyptology, and if there are still supporters of Budge's view on monotheism to give them their due, but we need to rework these articles as I think we've agreed. It isn't just that Budge wasn't always right, but he also (according to an Egyptologist friend of mine) stated things with a certainty that today's scholars would agree isn't warranted. She also says "Budge's translations and transliterations of ancient Egyptian texts are considered outdated by most serious scholars in Egyptology, and most students would not rely upon Budge's works in most serious research." Best wishes, Doug Weller (talk) 14:45, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Well, this isn't academic research and we have a lack of other sources. I do believe that the way it is phrased it purports it as Budge's theory. The feud does carry on through the British Museum, however, and the intention of the original poster was to remove the one cited source this article has. Now, Budge can legitimately be reduced to a footnote with good sources, but we dont' seem to have those sources at the current time. Your Egyptologist friend might be able to help with that though, allowing for a massive expansion in the article. KV(Talk) 15:40, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

I seem to be following this debate about Budge around. Budge did a great service to Egyptology by publishing so much material, including the Papyrus of Ani which is and was a much celebrated Book of the Dead from the British Museum. But he just needs to be read with some reservations and to remember that some of his interpretations have been superceded. I wouldn't say that there is still a feud about him but because his books are widely and cheaply available most people start by reading his 'Gods of the Egyptians' and so on. The thing is that Egyptology as a science has taken great strides since his day - they understand so much more and can translate much more accurately than at first (hieroglyphs were only first translated at all in the 19 century). The understanding of the religion has grown but it is still the case that various writers project on to it what they themselves understand or believe. For instance some Egyptologists deny any mystical thought in Ancient Egypt but this has been countered by people such as Naydler in his "Shamanic Wisdom in the Pyramid Texts" ISBN 089281755-0 which is worth a read if you get the chance. To understand what the Egyptian texts are on about we need to get into their way of seeing the world which in my view is only possible if we grasp the magical/mystical perspective on reality. Apepch7 (talk) 13:01, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Expert?

I would like to help out with this article. I will therefore add information as and when as well as citing resources. I can do this as time permits. If any quires please contact me at my talk page.

Apex156 23:26, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Ra in Arabic

Just out of curiosity, why is Ra's name given in Arabic, given that he was an ancient Egyptian god?

Good point; in this case the arabic version is not relevant.Jeff Dahl (Talk • contribs) 05:41, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Loss of Citations

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ra&diff=103615296&oldid=103490269

That is where the article was completely rewritten and all sources were removed (most of them I had entered). How does everyone think we should rectify this? Revert or reentering the text and sources?

KV(Talk) 23:50, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

I'll wait at least until the weekend before deciding to act unilaterally.

KV(Talk) 23:14, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Done, and I must say that this, the most important of the Egyptian Gods, has a completely terrorized article. I'll have to do some major editting, and probably before I mess with Ma'at.

KV(Talk) 23:28, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Already began compiling sources, I'll put it in all at once in a major rewrite. This time I won't wipe out all the heiroglyphs, pictures, citations, and information like that anon.

KV(Talk) 00:51, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

The english spelling of ra?

Why does Ra spelled with an "a" sound wrong. I keep saying it my self and it just doesn't sound right. Try it first with a soft "a" then a hard "a" it just doesn't sound right.

spelling and pronunciation

As the Wiki-managers have noted, this article is indeed in need of documentation for its statements. At the very start we are told the earliest known form of the god's name was *ri:ʕu, but where does this reconstruction come from? It's also not very clear from the font that the second consonant is supposed to be a voiced pharyngeal, as at the beginning of the word "Arab" when pronounced by many Arabs. From Peust 1999 (Egyptian Phonology) p.47: "< ʕ > is a symbol for an original dental stop /d/. The pronunciation during the Middle Kingdom may have been something like /'riddV/ or /'liddV/ (V = unknown vowel). By the New Kingdom, several phonetic developments including the shift /d/ > /ʕ/...had taken place. The word was now pronounced as /'reʕə/...by the Roman period...contracted to /'re/" The last pronunciation is similar to English "ray", especially as pronounced by the Scots or Irish. This was how it was pronounced in most of the ancient Coptic dialects, although the conservative southern Akhmimic dialect still kept the old vowel: /ri/(as in first syllable of "reason"). The form used by the Romans and Greeks is in line with the northern dialects' /re/. In modern-day English-speaking environments, one can either preserve the old way with the "ray" pronunciation, or use an Anglicised form, which would be "ree"(cf. the Greek goddess of youth, Hebe, usually pronounced as "heebee" in English). There seems to be no reason for the "rah" pronunciation. If, however, the spelling "Ra" has its origin perhaps in the 19th century, the self-centered English at that time may have felt that "A" was just the right symbol to use for the IPA /e/ sound, in which case they actually meant "Ra" to be pronounced /re/, and then this connection was forgotten in a later age. This has happened before: the zodiac sign Libra used to be pronounced like the first syllable in "library", but (during the 60s?) when it came into popular usage, poorly educated people assumed it was Italian or something, and started saying "leebra", which is now the new standard. In any case, I would not recommend using the "rah" pronunciation unless its origin can be documented.Jakob37 (talk) 11:03, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Religious prejudice

The phrase in the text that says "resembled what would become the Christian deity" needs to be changed or taken out all together. This phrasing implicitly states that at one time or another the "christian deity" did not exist and that something, another diety or a thought or idea "became" that deity.

Now you can disagree with Christianity if you want. You can worship your own god, no god or yourself if you want but it is just plain wrong to put this kind of obvious NPV violation in this text.

I suggest changing the sentence to say "resembled the Christian Deity" and leave the rest alone. In this way we not only shorten the article, have a better grammatical structure in the sentence but also not offend the Billions of people who have believed in the Christian deity in their ages past as well as the Billions who today believe in the Christian deity. Also, considering that Jews, Muslims and protestants all also claim to follow the Christian deity along with Christians, that is fully over half of the earth's population.

I hope I am not asking for too much here. It isn't like I am forcing you to say that God exist or anything. Just don't put it out there that he doesn't since this violated Wikipedia's published rules. I know that someone is going to want to argue about this but Yes, in its current form the article does implicitly state that the Christian Deity does not actually exist. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.36.194.110 (talk) 11:45, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Don't worry about offending people. It's accurate to say "resembled WHAT WOULD BECOME.." because at one time or another the "christian deity" did NOT exist and did evolve from another diety. What's wrong with history? You sound like you're the one with the POV. - mike —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.45.135.53 (talk) 09:02, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Actually, "my POV is not a POV but fact" is the classic case of POV pushing. What you are talking, 68..., is not "history" but ideology! The problem is not that it offends but that it violates the rules of Wikipedia. Str1977 ^(talk) 15:16, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Founded Abbas.

Abbas is the God of the sun Ra, the opposite is Aphophis. New trinity: Aphophis-"God" Father/Allah-Ra.--79.52.171.137 (talk) 21:16, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Richard Alpert = Ra?

There's nothing in the Lostpedia or Lost Wiki links that explicitly says that the character "is said by creator J.J. Abrams to be based primarily on Ra." Could you link to the direct source? Anthony71 (talk) 12:29, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

The Totem of Ra.

I am arguing that the actual animal that was associated with god Ra is the Hawk, not a Falcon. It is only in the form of the composite deity, Ra-Horakhty, that they are identified as a falcon, with Horus being the falcon. Many writers, mythographers and Egyptologies (apologies for the lack of citation) generally accepts Ra as the hawk-god of Egypt. Remember the story where humanity was said to have been formed from the 'Tears of Ra'? Hawks possess dark markings on their faces that resembles tear-drops. This observation inspired the ancient Egyptians into thinking that their Hawk-god Ra is their creator, add the fact that Hawks were very swift flyers, perfect to represent their glorious god. You should check this information from Encarta 95-98. Let me add: Yes, I am aware that for the Ancient Egyptians, where were little distinction/difference between otherwise similar-looking yet distinct species (the same goes with Anubis whose identity was confused by their believers/writers as either a jackal or black dog.)

Shall I edit this already? --110.55.191.131 (talk) 10:27, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

How are you distinguishing between a falcon and a hawk, given that in North America the word hawk is often applied to what may otherwise be called falcons, and of course we need to take into consideration what species of birds might have existed at that time in Egypt. Dougweller (talk) 14:16, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Sun Ra

I think Jazz artist Sun Ra should be add to the In Popular Culture section. He uses a lot of the imagery on his album covers and in his videos.--70.142.47.99 (talk) 23:19, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

The Daughters of Ra

In the extended versions of Egyptian mythology, Ra was said to have fathered many children, most of them were daughters - although the exact identity of his consort or consorts remains vague and ambiguous. This is because when the different city states of Ancient Egypt began to unite under one rule, the followers of Ra attempted to assimilate the identity of their own chief god with the other divine identities. This led to the development of a system of belief where Ra alone was said to have fathered the many children gods and goddesses from different religions.

I suggest that perhaps there should be a section in this article that is dedicated to this topic - both in terms of the actual ancient religion and the narrative mythology. Reference may be researched and later added if this is accepted and then verified

List of possible offsprings:

• Bast / Bastet - daughter of Amun-Ra (from the religious text of the New Kingdom - please wait for reference)
• Selket / Serket - a minor daughter of Ra (from the Westcar Papyrus)
• Hathor and Sekhmet - referred to as the creation of Ra from his fiery eye arguably his daughter literally (The Destruction of Mankind story from the narrative tales of the Middle Kingdom)
• Maat - A daughter of Ra. She is referred to as the personification of order that was called forth by Ra during his birth from Ocean Nun (from Story of Creation in the Beben temple in Heliopolis)
• Mafdet - a very ancient and minor goddess that was many-times suggested as another form the the feline-goddesses Bast or Sehkmet.
• Wadjet and Nekhbet - the two ladies who were the protectors of Lower and Upper Egypt respectively - therefore the whole Egypt in general. They both share the title as the Eye of Ra similar to Bast, Sekhmet, Hathor, Tefnut etc who are all considered as the feminine protector of the country and sometimes as daughters of Ra also. Arguably, in terms of narrative mythology, we can conclude that all protector goddesses of Egypt may be linked in the linage of Ra. 203.87.203.190 (talk) 13:25, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

You need to provide references/citations for this information - if you can there is no need to put it in 'talk' you can amend the main article yourself.Apepch7 (talk) 15:36, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

ISRAEL

In Hebrew...

Is = I want Ra = Evil El = God

Isis, Ra, Elohim