Talk:Jealousy

Jealousy, Envy and emotional response

Jealousy is not of its self an emotion, but evokes emotions similar to loss and grief. This is not surprising since “Jealousy typically ... occur when a person believes a valued relationship is being threatened by a rival.” As with the types of bereavement [1] the responses vary between types and individuals response. There are some 9 coping strategies, some more appropiate than others. Perhaps the first, primative, and most basic reaction (within a marriage) is anger directed at the partner, rather than the threat, and this can have a counter productive affect on the relationship. Yet on the other hand, with a more mature and rational response, it can work to strengthen the partnership or even become a paraphilia (categorized as zelophilia) Psychology or Jealousy,[2].

Envy involves things, status, status symbols, position, wealth, etc., while jealousy involves relationships. Both envy and jealousy involve a sort of ownership; envy is what you have of what others already have – jealousy is what you have when others are stealing a person or destroying a relationship you have with another. Therefore the response to envy may be, at worst, dissapointment, while the response to jealousy is anger, a sense of injustice, perhaps contain self-deprication as an adequate and satisfactory partner.

Uh... am I missing something?

Why, in an article that's ostensibly about the general concept of jealousy, are we focusing SOLELY on romantic/sexual/interpersonal jealousy? What about material jealousy? What about situational jealousy? Obviously, quite often when we speak of jealousy we're talking about how I'm jealous of my neighbor's new riding mower, or of my sister's effortless ability to get good grades.

"Jealousy" is not a reasonable title for this article. It should really be filed under "Romantic jealousy" or some such.

I am completely revising the article on jealousy. I am breaking it up into several articles, and so it will take me a couple of weeks to complete the revision. You can check my progress at User:Kc62301/Jealousy. With regards to your points:

• Popular culture often uses the term jealousy as a synonym for envy. Envy is what you are describing above--being envious or desiring that which another person possesses such as a material object or a keen mind or a rich life. However, there are reasons why scientists and philosophers draw distinctions between envy and jealousy. I cover this topic in the upcoming User:Kc62301/Jealousy_definitions article.
• Jealousy is a reasonable name for this article, with it focus on romantic jealousy, because we have no other word for this kind of jealousy. People don't normally say "You're romantically jealous about her dating that guy." They say, "You're jealous about her dating that guy." The envious feelings and behaviors you describe are better suited for the article on Envy.
• The article on Envy needs some improvement. Perhaps you might improve it, since you have an interest in envy. Kelly 00:39, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm glad to see you've put a lot of thought into this. I've read your article on definitions of jealousy and I think it's excellent. Your points about the use of the word are well taken, and I'll have no problems whatsoever with the current article on jealousy once a link to your article on definitions (or a similar article) is featured prominently somewhere near the top. I also think the current article on Envy is well done. It's a stub, of course, but it's going in the right direction.

I will try to mention the distinction between envy and jealousy in the opening paragraphs of the main Jealousy article (revised version). I hope to release the revised version of the article(s) before I leave for vacation on August 4th. If I miss that deadline, I will definitely have it up before the end of August. It takes a little time to write these articles. :-) Kelly 14:13, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

• • • Currently the 'definition' section does not actually clearly define what jealousy is. I wanted to use it as a reference for a non-native English speaker and found that section very lacking. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.171.164.53 (talk) 14:10, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Heinlein

The following was removed:

"The novelist Robert A. Heinlein culminates this view when, in his novel Time Enough for Love, he writes, "A competent and self-confident person is incapable of jealousy in anything. Jealousy is invariably a symptom of neurotic insecurity."

I'm not going to insist the Heinlein quote stay in the article. I personally disagree with him. But society does not teach us how to have sexually open relationships when we are growing up. We usually have to learn about sexually open relationships during adulthood, and many people have found Heinlein an inspiration. Heinlein has influenced the way many people view open relationships and jealousy. It's not that he's an expert. It's that he's been influential through his art. I cited his work as an example of a viewpoint held by some people because his works have inspired people to adopt those very viewpoints.

Jealousy Portal

What's the point of putting a jealousy portal tag on the page when no such portal exists? It's the functional equvalent of a dead link.

Defining Jealousy

The current article begins:

Jealousy is an emotion by one who perceives that another person is giving something that he/she wants or feels is due to them (often attention, love, respect or affection) to an alternate. For example, a child will likely become jealous when their parents give sweets to a sibling but not to them. An adult may become jealous if they observe that their lover is flirting with someone else, perceiving a threat to their relationship. While the child's jealousy might be assuaged if they received candy from their parents as well, the jealous lover desires that the affections of their lover be directed exclusively to themselves and would not be assuaged by an equal share of attention.

This is mostly correct. However, two corrections seem in order.

First, most social scientists agree that jealousy consists of the cognitive, emotional, and behavioral responses to the threat of a rival. Jealousy is not simply an emotion, like anger or fear. It is multidimensional. This is actually a critical point, because people show considerable variation in how they express jealousy, and variations in how they express jealousy influence the reactions of their partners and the outcomes of their relationships. I think some mention should be made of jealousy involving thoughts, feelings, and behaviors.

Second, the idea that jealous lovers want affections directed exclusively to themselves is not always true. Some couples agree to sexually non-monogamous relationships. The partners in these couples do not want desires and affections directed exclusively towards themselves. Yet, sexually open couples experience jealousy. The threat of jealousy is not the loss of exclusivity, but the loss of the quality or stability (i.e., longevity) of a valued relationship. I think the paragraph should be changed to talk about threat to relationship quality and stability rather than desire for sexual monogamy (which is a related but different issue).

If there are no objections in the next few days, I would like to implement these changes.

Kelly

Deleted material

1. Jealousy comprises a form of the deadly sin of envy, but implies a feeling of personal claim which is not present in envy, as well as the requirement of a third person. [I deleted this yesterday, before I learned how to sign my entries. Deirdre Golash 00:13, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)]

2. It seems that jealousy is predicated on a sense of loss, which may be feared or actual, real or fantasized. It may be the direct loss of a possession, in which case no third party is involved. Or it may be the perceived (or feared) loss of affection where the beloved bestows affection (or signs of affection) on a third party. Jealousy is most acute where one sees oneself as in competition with the third party for the affection of the beloved, especially where it appears that the third party has a competitive advantage.

The sense of loss that underlies jealousy may give rise to a complex admixture of emotions, depending on other evaluative factors. Perception of the loss as grave and irreversible will result in grief; anger will result if the subject sees the loss as undeserved and (at least internally) demands that it be reversed; fear will also be present insofar as the subject projects the loss into the future. A sense (or fear) of betrayal will result if the loss implies a breach of trust. The emotional sub-components of jealousy are thus dependent on the particular circumstances in which it arises, as well as the perceptions of the subject.

I realized that the above (which I wrote) violates the "Original Research" prohibition. Deirdre Golash 21:57, 2 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Deletion of Bible Verses

The etymology of the word jealousy is not related to Hebrew, and the Greek origins of the word jealousy preceed the translation of the Old and New Testaments into Greek. Therefore, Bible verses are not relevant to the etymology of the word jealousy. If someone would like to write a section on Religion and jealousy, that would be a more suitable place for Bible verses. However, the Wikipedia NPOV policy would require that other religious views of jealousy also be discussed. kc62301

biblical views should not be withheld for lack of an alternative religious view, also, the biblical view is an alternative to all other views, non religious as well as religious. religious views should not be put in their own category of view type when discussing NPOV policy. Rds865 (talk) 04:20, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Defining Jealousy

Because jealousy is complex, and different people have their own interests with respect to jealousy, we could argue forever about what constitutes the best definition. I created a section noting that people define jealousy different ways, that these definitions share some basic themes, and that jealousy can be distinguished from other phenomena such as envy. I moved the etymology to the very beginning of the article, next to the initial definition. kc62301

Proposal for Expanding the Article

• Given the lack of discussion on my proposal for expanding the article, I am going to begin the expansion following the July 4th holiday.
• I plan to add sufficient material to create several related articles. The Jealousy article will contain a very brief introduction to jealousy, followed by sections providing descriptions and links to the related articles. Please see the Monogamy article and the Attachment theory article for examples.
• The related articles will include the following:

Definitions of jealousy - explaining why various definitions have been offered, giving some examples from scientists and dictionaries, and distinguishing jealousy from envy

Models of jealousy - briefly reviews several different models of jealousy proposed by investigators.

Psychology of jealousy - describe the various experiences of jealousy (thoughts and feelings, including the information on sexual arousal now in the Paraphilia section), describe the various behavioral responses to jealousy, and identify several psychological factors associated with jealousy.

Sociology of jealousy - this will be the current sociology of jealousy for now. I will come back and expand this section if I have time.

Coping with jealousy - talk about emotional regulation processes, review clinical approaches to dealing with jealousy, describe practical exercises used in cognitive therapy, and provide links to additional readings of practical value.

• I will create drafts in my user space so people can review and comment before the revisions are put in place. Please go to User:Kc62301/Jealousy to see the proposed revisions. kc62301

Revision July 26, 2006

• I have exercised the Wikipedia philosophy of being bold and made major revisions to the jealousy article.
• The topic of jealousy is broad enough for several articles. Reorganizing the main page to summarize the various articles will help readers find the information they seek more easily. It will also allow contributors to write new articles on open marriage and easily integrate them into the new page. This strategy has gone over well with the Monogamy article and the Attachment theory article, and it has recently been implemented for the Open marriage article as well.
• I released the articles a little early due to my upcoming vacation. I will continue to polish and improve the articles after my vacation.
• I have some unfinished articles in the works on User:Kc62301/Jealousy psychology, User:Kc62301/Jealousy sociology, User:Kc62301/Jealousy biology, and User:Kc62301/Jealousy art. I will complete all these articles and release them by September 30th. The article on Jealousy in art will be a stub much like the article on jealousy in religion. Kelly 07:38, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

The emotions and close relationships links on the side of the page make the page look clogged up.137.219.151.236 02:42, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Two suggestions

I have tried to contact 'Kelly', but without luck.
In this article, and specifically where it discusses the contrast with 'envy',
I am missing the utter brief explanation:

envy --> 2 people

jealousy --> 3 people

Furthermore, I find the book titled Jealousy, by Nancy Friday, is worth mentioning. Tristan Laurillard 02:32, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Defining Jealousy (Again)

Examples of jelousy: I need help!!

my girlfriend keeps going on line to chat with guys and tell them how hot they are and all kinds of stuff and she keeps getting text messages from random people. When she talks on the phone anD I ask who are you talking to? she says "my cousin" I said how can it be your cousin you don't flirt with your cousin do you?

Well this kind of thing is far away from jelous the get me pissed and what else? oh!!!! she has a baby that I take care of.......

Do I dump her?

help

The current definition for jealousy in this article is not accurate; it describes envy. Let us be clear about the distinction between jealousy and envy. If I am distressed that someone I hold dear is having an intimate relationship with someone else, I am jealous. With jealousy my concern lies with the one beloved; he/she could have a relationship with anyone and I would feel the same. If I am distressed that someone I feel in competition with is having an intimate relationship with someone I hold of value, I am envious. With envy my concern lies with my rival; he/she could have a relationship with anyone I hold of value and I would feel the same.

Focus of jealousy --> beloved

Focus of envy --> rival

66.48.177.217 07:04, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 04:10, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

speculation

there is much speculation in this article, which I do not believe is in a good format. the speculation maybe expert speculation, but it should be noted as that. Rds865 (talk) 04:24, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

deletion

most of the article seems like someone just posted their essay, which I suggest should be deleted to best facilitate the formation of wikipedia article proper article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rds865 (talk • contribs) 04:31, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Spent a long time trying to boil down the long essays to something efficient and on-point. We've got another essay-like section added which replicates a previous section contrasting envy and jealousy (including reliance on the same same authorities) -- not a bad thing for an essay at all, but not really part of an encyclopedic treatment of the main subject. I propose to delete it. DavidOaks (talk) 00:06,

8 May 2008 (UTC)LIsTENn jealousy is when your friends tries to say sumthing about your boyfriend and dkiykah just a dam fucking  jealous bitch

Needs work

The first line of Definition reads:

" Jealousy is a passion, focusing his definition on the effects of jealousy, which “frequently get out of control” (Goldie, 2000, p. 229). "

This doesn't make much sense to me. It seems out-of-place and it seems to be missing context. Deletion? Refinement?

At the bottom, the page identifies compersion as "jealousy's opposite;" however the compersion page indicates that it is mistakenly referred to as the opposite of jealousy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.40.237.67 (talk) 09:06, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Deleted

• [3]

External links

• BBC: Jealousy
• The Buddhist Archives of Dr. Alexander Berzin: Dealing with Jealousy (March 2004)

Why?

Austerlitz -- 88.75.198.55 (talk) 19:02, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Jealousy v envy definitions in this article - is this Original Research?

I though that jealousy = envy+action, that jealousy was a more intense version of envy, intense enough to lead to a desire to harm the object. The article says "Jealousy differs from envy in that jealousy is about something one has and is afraid of losing, while envy refers to something one does not have and either wants to acquire or to prevent another from acquiring." This assertion has no independant source given for it and may be Original Research, so I'm going to delete this bit. Put it back if you can provide independant evidence. It is also inconsistant withthe "popular" definations of jealousy given later in the article which are different from this defintion. The Wikipedia article should not attempt to impose its own definitions of the words. The definition given may seem neat, but that does not make it true. 78.151.123.102 (talk) 20:36, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

You really should look in a dictionary, —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.194.179.148 (talk) 23:07, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

I thoroughly agree with 78.151 above. It seems this article has a lot of original research in it. I agree with 78.151s definition, and I think the article definitions are wrong. 92.15.0.178 (talk) 19:36, 26 July 2010 (UTC)