Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Professional wrestling

WikiProject Professional Wrestling
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Discussion on change in policy

This whole pointless debate on whether to delete Survivor Series (2010) or Keep It has gone to a stalemate. No matter how this turns out I'm starting to think we may have to change our policy on when we start PPV Articles. The next one that's up to be started is Tables Ladders & Chairs: TLC (2010) which is currently in redirect but judging from the Survivor Series (2010) battle this may carry over to further PPV articles. I suggest we start bringing up articles 5 to 6 weeks before the event so we can avoid this Survivor Series Debate again.--Nascarking 20:14, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

You know what, I agree Nas. But, how about starting them right after the last PPV ends?--Mikeymike2001 (talk) 20:17, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

I disagree. The event should be started as soon as there are reliable third party sources that say its scheduled to happen. Cue a lot of users telling me Wikipedia isn't a crystal ball and that the schedule can change and all the yada yada. I have my reply to that. We would be creating these articles for PPVs that are indeed scheduled to happen so its not C-Balling (and that's what the article say: scheduled). And yes, the schedule is changeable, but Wikipedia is changeable also. Survivor Series changes its name to WWE Extreme Pillow Fight, well, we can move the article when that happens. Wikipedia is editable 24/7 so whenever a reliable source comes up with a change in schedule, the articles can reflect that. Keep in mind that the schedule can even change a day before. John Cena could pass away the day before Bragging Rights and WWE cancels the event. That's a very extreme situation, but its just an example of how anything can happen at any time and how Wikipedia's live-editing system is prepared for that. By having all the articles created for scheduled for all the scheduled PPV events, these debates won't arise. Feedback ^☎ 20:52, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Mikey what PPV are you referring to because if it's a TNA PPV then I don't know when they happens, I don't follow TNA. I only follow WWE. So are you referring to TLC (2010)?--Nascarking 20:59, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

I agree with Feedback, I think personally if we can prove they're scheduled to take place through the arena website, wwe.com and ppv providers then that'd be enough grounds to keep them until a third party website comes along, like PWTorch or WrestleView. Afro (Say Something Funny) ^{- Afkatk} 15:37, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Afro that's what we've been doing but they won't accept it. American Airlines Arena and Ticketmaster.com are selling tickets for the event how is that not more than enough for now?!--Nascarking 16:42, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

What to do about the Survivor Series (2010) Situation

The debate has gotten into a stalemate and neither side is making any progress but at this point I'm about out of ammo and if I don't get anything done soon we can't save the article. At this point I'm trying to work on a compromise that we have the article redirected to the Main Survivor Series article until the the 1st RAW after Bragging Rights (2010), Because usually someone is announced the #1 Contender for the WWE Championship that very 1st Raw. If someone can give me something that can give us what we need to prevent the article from being deleted please tell me NOW because I don't want to have the article deleted. I'd settle for a redirect as long as it's to an article we know and for only 2 or 3 weeks. But if we can keep the article from being deleted without the redirect option tell me NOW because time is running out.--Nascarking 21:24, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Just don't delete it? Keep it as a stub with the generic lead section and scheduling info and when the creative build-up begins, you can start writing the background section. Feedback ^☎ 21:51, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Read the deletion debate and see what the whole argument is about. I think is has something to do with the fact that we have no Independent Sources. Even though we have sources that keep it running for right now, and our independents don't start running till about 3 weeks till Survivor Series.--Nascarking 22:04, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

I think you are making this into a much bigger deal than it is. If it gets deleted or redirected, it can be remade at a later date when more sources are available. The world isn't over. Nikki♥311 05:01, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Exactly, the world isn't over. Those guys at the deletion debate should learn that. Its so stupid they want to delete an article that is going to begin expansion in only a few weeks. But I guess its not the desire to have it deleted thats driving them... The fact that they caused something to happen on Wikipedia gets their adrenaline running, because they don't experience that level of control in their lives. So, to them, congratulations, you got an article deleted. Good job. Masturbate to the idea of control. Its going to come back up in a few weeks and it WILL become an FA and when that happens, I hope that Nascar informs them on their talk page so they can see how fucking productive deleting the article went. Feedback ^☎ 05:36, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

But that's just it, why should the article have to be deleted if it's gonna start expanding in less than 3 weeks. I can settle for a redirect on the article but will not let the page be deleted.--Nascarking 16:44, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Page that needs deleting

"Dashing" Cody Rhodes & Drew McIntyre - Does this really warrant having its own article? Maxwell7985 (talk) 00:34, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Well they are the Tag Team Champions.--Nascarking 01:39, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

At Present they are a put together team if they prove to be a more notable tag team in future then a proper article can be made, but at present they fall in line with the likes of Shawn Michaels and John Cena, Chris Jericho and Chris Benoit, yadda ya, I've redirected the page to what I believe is the correct place in short. Afro (Say Something Funny) ^{- Afkatk} 04:14, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Delete. Tony2Times (talk) 19:10, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Redirect is fine Tony.--Nascarking 19:46, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, you should delete it. You know, cuz the very existence of that article is going to destroy the foundation of Wikipedia as we know it. No, the internet shall suffer solely because of this article. We must delete it. God forbid someone expands it and makes it a Good Article, imagine the repercussions? the consequences? Jimbo will shut down WT:PW and Wikipedia as we know it. Feedback ^☎ 21:00, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

I agree the page must be destroyed, we must travel to mordor and throw it in the pits from once it came. Afro (Say Something Funny) ^{- Afkatk} 14:22, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Dashing Cody Rhodes & Drew McIntyre article

• Keep I agree with Feedback on that we shouldn't delete the article or have had it redirected because we have always expanded articles and made 67 of them Good Articles and 8 Featured Articles. It just needs time to be expanded. So my vote is keep.--Nascarking 21:13, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

There a non notable team if they continue to be a tag team and do more things they'll have notability till then its a no go.--Steam Iron 03:33, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

(1) Why start a new section when this can be easily discussed in the above. (2) as I've already mentioned this falls under a long lists of put together Tag teams, examples, Shawn Michaels and John Cena, Chris Jericho and Chris Benoit, Chris Benoit and Edge (who held gold multiple times). Afro (Say Something Funny) ^{- Afkatk} 14:29, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

The world governments will unite to shut down the internet to make sure no one gets to view such an article. Its obviously non-notable, its not as if millions of people know who this tag team is and what they've done. The very existence of such an article will cause the 2012 Apocalypse. Delete it now! "Drew McIntyre and Cody Rhodes" passing GAN? I can't even begin to imagine the backlash. Imagine if it passes FAC and gets featured on the main page? Oh, Jimbo help us. Feedback ^☎ 16:25, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Dumb sarcasm isn't the answer here, Feedback. RobJ1981 (talk) 01:03, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Explain to me how a team that defeated 5 other tag teams in a tag team turmoil match at Night of Champions (2010) and has managed to defeat any challenge thrown in their path isn't notable. Granted they aren't DX or Evolution or even The Dudley's, but they could go somewhere and we should keep that article open for that reason.--Nascarking 22:13, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Ummm because of WP:CRYSTAL. Odds are they will go the way of most random WWE pairings by breaking up after they lose the titles and never team again. Nikki♥311 03:20, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

"Odds are"? Probability is the mathematical art form of speculation Nikki. You're contradicting yourself. Feedback ^☎ 16:49, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Doesn't stop her being right. Tony2Times (talk) 19:15, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Um, yes it does. That's what contradicting means. If she's right, she's also wrong because of the paradox. The article should be created, expanded and nurtured. It can be a GA if given the proper care. Feedback ^☎ 20:27, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Maybe they will Nikki maybe they won't, the odds are the same with Laycool and yet we have an article for them (don't quote me as saying they shouldn't have one). As is with the Nexus and as we all know every stable will destroy itself at some point in time. The point is if this becomes more than just another Mark Henry & Evan Bourne random pairing and could go long term like DX (although personally, they will never be anything like DX), then we need to have an article for that scenario.--Nascarking 20:13, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

She's still right that almost all randomly assorted tag teams in WWE exist for only one title reign. Miz&Morrison was the last one to stick, before that I can't remember. Clearly Laycool don't have an article which renders that point moot but even if you wanted to discuss it, LayCool have existed much longer, are the central focus of the Divas division on both shows rather than being thrown in matches of little consequence and unified two titles so they've done way more than McIntyre and Rhodes who've been in 6 matches together and less than half of note (winning titles, defending them from the former champs.) There's nothing to nurture because they've done one sentence worth of interest. Tony2Times (talk) 21:26, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

If winning the Tag Titles is not enough to warrant them an article then by that logic The Hardyz haven't done anything other than revolutionize The Tables, Ladders & Chairs Match and win a bunch of Tag Titles.--Nascarking 23:40, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

@ Feedback: Whether I was contradicting myself or not is not the issue here. The team should only be included if they are notable as a team (meaning the team passes WP:GNG). As it is, they are two notable individuals who happen to team together and have won a title. Why make a new article for something that can be summed up in a small paragraph in the individual existing articles? Find an existing article to nurture and bring to GA. @ Nascarking: Are you kidding? The Hardys teamed together for years, are related, and have third party reliable sources that focus more on their time together than their singles' careers. Nikki♥311 03:22, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

I don't think that is the issue at all. Nikki, you and I both started here around the same time in 06/07 (I used to go by Lex94 by that time). I think we're the oldest members of the project currently active. Davnel, The Hybrid, The Chronic, Naha and all the others aren't around anymore, but you and I have seen the project grow and change throughout the last 4 years. The policy constantly changes when it comes to WP:PW and I believe this should be one of those grandious situations. There is no reason to go about deleting many articles because they're premature and other lame excuses. The main issue here is that people think they're all high and important because they get a say on Wikipedia. They just love the fact that they get to be in charge for once in their damn lives and when they see a discussion go their way, they ecstasize in joy. I presume you are obviously different from meatheads like those and that the "oo, look at me!" feeling doesn't affect your opinions on trivial situations such as these.

There is "Significant coverage" in many 3rd party sites and almost all of them are "Independent from the subject", "Reliability" and "Sources" is at the discretion of each reference but I'm sure that there are reliable ones like SLAM and others and WP:GNG states that consensus among editors is the main channel to establish "Presumption". Those are all the GNG so I don't see how the subject of this article doesn't meet them. Let's just keep the article and let it expand. Why the hell not? Feedback ^☎ 15:36, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Insulting people by calling them meatheads is uncivil. Let's have a discussion without you bashing others. It's not the end of the world if everyone doesn't edit Wikipedia just like you. That rant wasn't needed. RobJ1981 (talk) 20:19, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

It was very ambiguous and in fact, I had no one in mind when stating such a comment. That has changed now as it is quite obvious that you take it to personal offense because you fit the description to a T. And what really isn't needed is someone like you swaying discussion from the main topic to some side-complaint without contributing to the discussion at hand in any way whatsoever. Noticing that your first and only post in this thread has absolutely nothing to do with the topic, the article, the discussion, the guideline or anything relevant whatsoever, its safe to say you don't give two shits about the consensus that is being searched for here so why don't you go do something you do care about like getting blocked for harassment. Feedback ^☎ 21:54, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Look isn't it as long as they hold the titles they are as notable as anyone?--Nascarking 21:06, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

The thing is there notable as individuals but not as a team and others have said this.--Steam Iron 21:28, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Grow up already Feedback. Are you that obsessed with me that you have to dig up old crap? Go find other people to harass. You are acting very immature. RobJ1981 (talk) 01:09, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Woh... Seeing as how the only comments you've made in this discussion, ahem... "Dumb sarcasm isn't the answer here..." "Let's have a discussion without you bashing others... That rant wasn't needed..." "Go find other people to harass. You are acting very immature." have actually contributed absolutely nothing... yeah "LETS" have a discussion... well maybe you should actually participate in the discussion. And it seems the only harassing going on is you butting in ever so often to police some individual or random comment. ^{--UnquestionableTruth--} 02:33, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Feedback was out of line. There is no excuse for that, period. He's taking this site way too seriously. RobJ1981 (talk) 05:10, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

No, you're taking this site way too seriously. If you feel your only duty in this project is to police around a talk page, then I'm telling you right now, that sheer annoyance and instigation brought upon by your actions is completely unnecessary.^{--UnquestionableTruth--} 06:22, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

I had a reply typed out that focused on policy. It was lost in an edit conflict because of this stupid drama. Grow up, people. GaryColemanFan (talk) 06:25, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

People can we get back to the subject of what this is about. You can attack Feedback another time but right now we've got an issue to settle and we're getting a bit off subject.--Nascarking 14:10, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Feedback is out of line, period. As for the tag team: not notable at this time. Last time I checked, every brief team that held tag gold didn't have articles here. Drew and Cody are no different than all those teams. RobJ1981 (talk) 02:43, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Problem is Feedback wasn't out of line... secondly, don't pretend to be engaged in the primary discussion.^{--UnquestionableTruth--} 03:37, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Is this discussion still going on? I thought it would've been over a long time ago, no one brings up this type of thing when Angle and Sting hold the TNA tag titles but when Cody Rhodes and Drew McIntyre get the WWE Tag Titles big discussion. Afro (Say Something Funny) ^{- Afkatk} 06:34, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

I don't have a clue about what Feedback did and I don't give a damn, all I care about right know is trying to settle this issue of what to do with this article. If yall wanna fight, do it somewhere else, not on here and put this whole discussion off topic like yall've already done.--Nascarking 17:04, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

The article should be a redirect at this time. If the team has the titles for a while: make it an article again. Truth, get the hell over yourself. You don't own the board, so stop badgering me and thinking Feedback is just fine. He called people meatheads above, that's very out of line. RobJ1981 (talk) 19:58, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Wow the fact that you honestly believe the words you type on your little keyboard... I haven't seen a bigger train wreck since your recent Wikiquette alert ^{--UnquestionableTruth--} 20:34, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Find someone else to bother and leave me the hell alone. RobJ1981 (talk) 20:37, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Oh likewise. All of a sudden the harasser becomes the victim.^{--UnquestionableTruth--} 20:37, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Add Internet Wrestling Database links to all wrestler articles

All professional boxers have BoxRec.com links in their articles. Why shouldn't professional wrestlers have something similar? Internet Wrestling Database ([[1]]) is BoxRec's wrestling equivalent, having a searchable database for each wrestler that features their matches, titles, and other information. I think adding a relevant Internet Wrestling Database link to all wrestler's respective External Links sections should be a priority for this project. BoxRec already has a template, can we make something similar for Internet Wrestling Database links? TheNewMinistry (talk) 02:11, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

I have a few questions 1.) Is it a reliable site? 2.) If so what makes it reliable how do they check there facts. If I know more about the site I might go with it.--Steam Iron 03:31, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

We shouldn't include this as a reliable source going by the FAQ, the FAQ lists a number of sites which are deemed unreliable or their reliability is yet to be proven. Q. What sources did you use to obtain the results?. Afro (Say Something Funny) ^{- Afkatk} 14:26, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Swagger Soaring Eagle

What's with the mascot for Jack Swagger? Should the mascot be added to the SmackDown roster and more importantly, WHO IS THE SWAGGER SOARING EAGLE?--Mikeymike2001 (talk) 17:20, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Who gives two shits really? Would you search an encyclopedia for that type of information? Feedback ^☎ 17:39, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Yes --86.159.53.75 (talk) 18:00, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Um...I don't think the eagle is a wrestler... --☯The Dark Lord of Wiki☯ (talk) 20:59, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

He apparently doesn't care if the guy is a wrestler, an actor or an actual eagle, he just wants to know who is in the suit. And, apparently, that is encyclopedic information as well. Feedback ^☎ 21:03, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

FCW Title

The FCW Tag team title has his own article. Why the FCW Heavyweight title doesn't have it?--83.36.37.38 (talk) 17:26, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

The Heavyweight title should have enough reigns to be made into an article now, 10 pretty much is a minimum. Afro (Say Something Funny) ^{- Afkatk} 22:03, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

I had expanded all the FCW articles at one point, but then discovered there weren't any sources covering them. So I merged all of the articles with the company article. If the title can be sourced reasonably well, I would say it is notable enough for its own article.--WillC 04:09, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

http://www.cagematch.de/?id=5&nr=592 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.61.112.254 (talk) 22:25, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Cagematch isn't deemed reliable.--WillC 05:46, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

Triple H

I believe that this article needs protection due to repeated vandalism. (MgTurtle (talk) 22:05, 16 October 2010 (UTC))

Alright then, bring it up on the page protection board: Wikipedia:Requests for page protection. Members of the wrestling project can't just protect a page due to a post here. RobJ1981 (talk) 22:17, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

He is obviously searching for a consensus to request the page protection. Before doing so, he wants to hear other people's opinions on wether or not it should be protected. What he doesn't want to hear is someone sassing him or instructing him on what to do. If he would have gone to WP:RPP without telling us, I wouldn't have had the chance to say that I oppose because its the same IPs over and over again and IP blocks would be the way to go. Feedback ^☎ 01:23, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

My post wasn't "sassing" him at all. I told him the correct route to go. Look at the page protection board and then the relevant projects, I can bet you now there isn't talk page discussions in place. Page protection board can be used first just fine, so get over yourself. RobJ1981 (talk) 03:31, 17 October 2010 (UTC)