Talk:Carlos Kleiber

Recordings

This is just a note to any music lovers who happen to come here. If you haven't heard Carlos Kleiber's recording of the Beethoven Fifth Symphony, do not miss it. When I first heard it, I was astonished, and I have heard at least 75 recordings of this piece, including the Toscaninis, and at least 5 by Furtwangler alone. I won't claim it's the "best," as I don't believe there can be such a thing. Many of the Toscanini and Furtwangler ones are extraordinary. But so is the Kleiber. I was surprised to hear a conductor of a "later" generation extract that much energy, tension, feeling, and meaning from a piece which I had heard hundreds of times since childhood. I thought that it had been done to death by now, and I was wrong. Don't miss it. The sound recording is, in addition, of course, incredible. And with this piece, many of the greatest performances were recorded long ago, when recording was not as advanced. Many of us who grew up with the classic recordings of the great conductors, were used to hearing Beethoven associated with a certain sound quality, when reproduced. It's wonderful to hear Beethoven's violins, violas, cellos and basses closer to what string instruments really sound like in a concert hall. To hear his instruments really bowed, etc., in a disc recording makes one re-appreciate his art that much more. But the essence of an acid test is still Kleiber's conducting. It is breathtaking. Don't miss it. 66.108.4.183 20:27, 3 November 2006 (UTC) Allen Roth

German?

To my knowledge Carlos Kleiber was an Austrian conductor. Note that his father, Erich Kleiber, was Austrian; the German Wikipedia refers to Carlos Kleiber as an Austrian-Argentinian conductor. --Vheissu (talk) 21:42, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

German, Austrian, Argentinian?

To my knowledge, everything is much more complicated than this. Erich Kleiber was an austrian citizen, but our Kleiber, was born Karl Kleiber in Germany and was, at the time, a german citizen. When in Buenos Aires it is said that when he changed his name, he managed to obtain the argentinian nationality. For this, we have some reliable sources. After the war, we have multiple stories: one says that he kept the argentinian nationality --but we don't have any reliable sources; another one says that he applied in the 80's to obtain the austrian nationality --but we don't have any reliable sources either. Regarding his death, I would have been much more circumpstect than the author of this page. Kleiber died 7 months after his wife, the slovenian ballerina. But, as the press release of his death has only been public almost one week after his death, we simply don't know where he died. Some people even say that he passed away in Zürich; others, that it happened in Münich, where he was living. I have written his French WP page and left some hesitation. Before Wikipedia, I had worked for a huge encyclopedia (in France) about conductors, and was in charge of him. After three weeks of investigation, I remained unable to give his nationality with certainty. I have seen Kleiber conducting three times; and one evening, I had the honor to "chat" with him during half an hour. It was fantastic. We talked about everything but music (he hated that); he was in a very good mood, after conducting a Rosenkavalier with a cracked bone in his right shoulder (car crash): he showed me the X-rays!!! What was really magic came from his inner self, living half in reality and half in dreams... I never asked him if he was austrian, german, argentinian, slovenian or wizard of Oz. This Titan was wrapped in enigma. I believe that he liked it...User Talk: MenerbesMenerbes (talk) 11:09, 23 September 2008 (UTC)13:09

Whatever country he had a passport from, the lead should really point out his Austrian roots, he isn’t really associated with Argentina and belonged to the tradition of German and Austrian conductors. 83.204.160.80 (talk) 15:30, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

I don't think we can say he was Argentinian since none of his parents were argentinian (unless we can find a verifiable source indicating he did actually became legally an argentinian), and he was born in Berlin. Also he lived there just during the WW2. It should be noted, though, that he did live in Argentine and that he was born in Germany. --Karljoos (talk) 11:09, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Kleibergrams

I think it would be just INCREDIBLE to have image one of the famous scanned "Kleibergrams" posted here. I am devastated because I had one he left on my father's music stand and it seems to have vanished. Can't find it anywhere :( I would be very happy to have one posted here.--Karljoos (talk) 11:11, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

References/Sources

Barber, Charles: Corresponding With Carlos: A Biography of Carlos Kleiber, Rowman & Littlefield, 09/ 2010 (in English) hasn't been published yet but it is already in the reading list... advertisement? I think so. I will remove it. It can be added once it is published.--Karljoos (talk) 14:00, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Corrections

There a some wrong informations in the text, I will correct them later, because I also would like to add some informations, in German Wiki I did already ... for example, Kleibers father was Austrian, his mother american jewish origin, his nationality fist was Austrian, then Argentinian, and since 1980 Austrian again, he did not leave Europe in 1935 and was not educated on Argentinian schools, and did not study in NY, unfortunately my book was not yet published in English

Alexander Werner, Author of "Carlos Kleiber. Eine Biographie", Schott, Mainz 12/2007 and two times new edited and revised 2009 and 2010... also Japanese version .. wrote this 08/2010

my Kleiber page

1st amongst equals

Although Kleiber is often described as being a great conductor, it seems an exaggeration to suggest that he was considered by many to be the greatest conductor of all time, 1st amongst equals. We have no real recordings of some conductors like Mahler so to use the phrase "of all time" makes no sense, and I doubt whether Kleiber would win some kind of greatness poll versus say Furtwangler. Of the references given for this statement, none of those that I can access make such a strong claim, they merely say Kleiber was considered *amongst* the greatest. Thus I have modified the text.