User talk:Jakew

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see my contribs for news update

see my contribs for news update• Ling.Nut 22:55, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know. Jakew (talk) 09:23, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : LI (May 2010)

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You are now a Reviewer

Hello. Your account has been granted the "reviewer" userright, allowing you to to review other users' edits on certain flagged pages. Pending changes, also known as flagged protection, will be commencing a a two-month trial at approximately 23:00, 2010 June 15 (UTC).

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The Collaborator's Barnstar

		The Collaborator's Barnstar
		Jakew, I award you this barnstar for the unexpected move of (temporarily) restoring the NPOV tag to the Circumcision article on June 3, and for your unfailing civility and patience in continuing discussions (not to mention an exactitude which renders me almost aneologic). ☺Coppertwig (talk) 22:37, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Why, thank you, Coppertwig. That's very nice of you, and much appreciated.

P.S. What does "aneologic" mean? Jakew (talk) 08:45, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

By "aneologic" I mean unable to coin new words. I somehow got into the practice of coining a word every time I award a barnstar. ☺Coppertwig (talk) 16:56, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Ah, yes, now you've explained it's obvious: a-neologic. :-) Jakew (talk) 17:02, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : LII (June 2010)

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NPOV noticeboard thread

I started this thread about the genital integrity redirect, but forgot to let you know about it. Not sure that's the best place for it as it is slightly complex (and may not be a POV issue at all) but it seemed like a place to start. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 17:38, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Edit Vandalism

FIRST WARNING: If you continue to vandalize Wikipedia, as you did at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumcision_controversies , you may be blocked from editing. Historys Docs (talk) 16:22, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Assuming that you are sincere, you appear to be unaware of the definition of vandalism. I suggest you familiarise yourself with that definition before posting any further "warnings". Jakew (talk) 15:51, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Edit vandalism occurs when the reader who deletes an edit has not properly read or looked into the link that supports the assertion of fact. Historys Docs (talk) 16:21, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

No, that isn't the definition, as you would know if you read the link I supplied above. Jakew (talk) 16:23, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

---

Vandalism: Willful damage or destruction, often of shared property en.wiktionary.org/wiki/vandalism Historys Docs (talk) 16:38, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

First, that isn't Wikipedia's definition, which (to give you the link again) is here. Second, removing inappropriate material is neither damage nor destruction. Put another way, that's not the right definition, and it doesn't apply anyway. Jakew (talk) 17:11, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

It's edit vandalism all right. Do I doubt your state of mind -- your sincerity? I get your (ilks') problem -- they seem to consider themselves an expert on deceptive edits, judging by their profile description (unless they've deleted them). "Education will win over Ignorance." That historical fact rips the guts out of uneducated readers. In the meantime, a manipulative use of Wikipedia guidelines is a cunning accomplishment, whoever does it ... I'm sure you agree! Historys Docs (talk) 17:48, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

If I had the slightest idea what you were talking about, I might know whether I agree or disagree. Unfortunately, as things stand, I'm just baffled. Jakew (talk) 20:19, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Dispute in Mary Kay Letourneau

I have stated your actions on that page are incivil. Not only incivil, but a waste of editors' time, which is notable considering I claim you essentially followed me there from our disputes on circumcision, like Avraham (Avi) did before you -- both of you having zero edits to this article prior to my editing it. Jake, at least two editors there are clearly editing the lead in support of a fringe POV, refusing wording I suggest that you yourself seem to abide by. When they refuse, you join in their defense, arguing the same consensus exists in favour of the change, instead of attempting to convince them of its neutrality? You don't try to convince them one iota? It doesn't seem like your usual, civil demeanor Jake. Please stop. Blackworm (talk) 03:40, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

I'm not going to conduct a content dispute with you here, Blackworm. Jakew (talk) 09:24, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

WP:HARASS. Blackworm (talk) 04:55, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

Re:Circumcision

Assuming that comment was directed at me, that's fine, I have other things to do, so you're on your own with this one. Good luck. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 17:56, 17 August 2010 (UTC) I came to that page originally probably because there was something in ANI about an edit war. I should have taken it off my watch list when it looked like it was settled. But it's never settled. The POV-pushers will always try some new way to wedge their views in. So now it is off my watch list. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 18:18, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

You're right: it is never settled. I'm sorry if I was rude to you, I was just trying to avoid the kind of blazing row that I've seen in the past. Your input has been appreciated, and I'll look forward to seeing you elsewhere on WP. Jakew (talk) 18:42, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : LIII (July 2010)

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Mary Kay Letourneau

I appreciate your continued efforts to uphold neutrality and encyclopedic tone on this article. In my opinion a single editor has ignored consensus and created a battleground atmosphere. If you are interested in addressing that issue or need additional input in some aspect of the article, please let me know. Thanks,-- — Keithbob • Talk • 20:11, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

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WP:ANI

You may wish to look at the discussion I started in regard to Dan's editing. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 06:18, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Thanks! Jakew (talk) 09:30, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

I had my suspicions, and that's why I notified you. I have asked that he be indef'd and his user page totally cleared. This is intolerable behavior for a wikipedia editor. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 10:04, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for your concern. He has made some useful edits (though they invariably require editing to enforce appropriate policies), but I wholly agree that personal attacks of this nature are unacceptable. I would personally prefer that he deleted the attacks himself, but I'll watch with interest to see what unfolds. Jakew (talk) 10:10, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

This is one time where it's a good thing I'm not an admin, or I would have done it myself (which wouldn't have been appropriate, as I've probably engaged him in debate on the matter). It's one thing to argue for a viewpoint. Trying to impeach another editor's integrity, solely on the basis of his viewpoint, is way over the line. It's McCarthyism. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 10:13, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

It's incredibly common, though (particularly, I'm tempted to suggest, by those who lack actual arguments). Allude to dark, sinister motives on the part of those with whom you disagree, and you can avoid having to address what they actually say. I've seen it a lot in the circumcision debate — the label "circumfetishist" seems to be a favourite of the more strident anti-circumcision activists (amazingly, I have often seen a peer-reviewed study dismissed with nothing more than "so-and-so is a circumfetishist"). I assume that the technique must work, to some extent, otherwise nobody would use it, but it seems more than a little pathetic. Jakew (talk) 11:42, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

I don't claim any expertise on the subject, but it seems to me like the circumcision opponents have turned this into a war where there's no real enemy. There's no circumcision "cabal" - it's just done routinely in hospitals (or at least it used to be) for various health reasons. These guys strike me as being basically obsessed with their genitals, among other things. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 12:13, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

But, of course, that's precisely what a cabalist would say. Jakew (talk) 12:34, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue LVI, October 2010

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Done

Revdeld as requested. However, do you really think it's appropriate of you to be editing articles about circumcision considering the website you run and the strong views you hold? Try editing some other topics in future please, lay off anything you have a COI with :-) Chase me ladies, I'm the Cavalry (talk) 13:39, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Just so you're aware, I've spent the previous two hours looking into your edits because of a concern that the Twitter account might actually belong to you - thank goodness it doesn't. You might want to report it to Twitter as an abusive impersonation account. I checked over the related discussions, including the one you link me to, but it seems that there was never a conclusion reached. You may only be interested in advocating circumcision, but what I'm asking is that you 'diversify your portfolio', lest people see you as a single-purpose account and act accordingly! Chase me ladies, I'm the Cavalry (talk) 14:17, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Please don't say that Jakew is "advocating circumcision". To my knowledge, that is not how he describes what he does and is not what he seems to me to do. Per WP:BLP, please have several reliable sources to back up such an assertion.

Please read the WP:COI guideline. It doesn't say that someone like Jakew has a COI with respect to circumcision articles, and even if someone does have a COI, the COI guideline still allows them to edit such articles (being careful in certain ways), so your request for Jakew not to edit such articles is two steps removed from what the guideline says and is off-base. There was previously a discussion about whether Jakew had a COI and it was stated that having a POV is not the same thing as having a COI. Experts are allowed (and hopefully encouraged!) to edit articles on the topics they're expert in!! ☺Coppertwig (talk) 21:33, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Hi Jake, reverts on Circumcision

Hi a friend of mine contacted me regarding your revert history on the Circumcision article, I looked into it and see quite a bit of reverting going on but not much editing, can you tell me whats going on with the article to require so much reverts?

Thanks. Your Wikipedia Patroller --Alin0Steglinski (talk) 06:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Reverts are just another kind of edit. Sometimes they're the most appropriate kind, such as when a change does not and cannot easily be made to comply with Wikipedia policy. Generally (except in really obvious cases) you'll find an accompanying discussion on the talk page. You might find it helpful to read WP:BRD, which discusses the bold-revert-discuss method of collaborative editing. Jakew (talk) 10:44, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Hi, Alin0Steglinski. The Circumcision article is I think one of the top 50 most frequently-viewed pages on Wikipedia, and has been edited extensively. It also has the "controversial" template on its talk page. When pages have been edited that much, and are on controversial topics which are often edited by new or relatively new editors, it often happens that a large proportion of the edits need to be reverted. A similar situation may occur on the pages about candidates in major elections, major current events, or whatever pages happen to be the featured article for that day. The circumcision page is already the product of extensive discussion, collaboration and consensus-building, so any changes often require more discussion and consensus-building before they can be implemented. When Jakew or anyone else reverts edits, the editor who had done the edit or anyone else is welcome to discuss it on the talk page and perhaps arrive at a consensus to put the edit back in or to form some other version that meets the concerns of both sides. Jakew is very familiar with WP:NPOV and other Wikipedia policies, and has participated in many lengthy discussions about the content of the circumcision page. When he reverts an edit, it's usually something that someone else would have reverted anyway if they'd had the time to examine it; it's often best to just revert these immediately and I'm glad Jakew has the time to do so. He also often comments on an edit and waits for discussion before modifying or reverting it. As Jakew said, reverting is a form of editing; it's one of the techniques that allows Wikipedia articles to be of such high quality. ☺Coppertwig (talk) 21:25, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue LVII, November 2010

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Earth radius reference

Hi, Jakew. I'm not really "back"; I'm taking frequent long wikibreaks. However, I'd appreciate some help from you in figuring out the date of a reference. See Earth radius and Talk:Earth radius#Date of Moritz. The reference is here http://www.springerlink.com/content/0bgccvjj5bedgdfu/about/ and it gives a "Springerlink Date" in the year 2000, but I wonder if that's the date it was put on the web rather than the date it was originally published. I'd like to know which year Volume 74 number 1 of the Journal of Geodesy was published. In the article itself, I've added it as a ref with year 2000, but there's another almost identical ref with year 1980 (taken from the title? which is "Geodetic Reference System 1980") and I'm not sure if that's the same publication or not. I tried clicking on "export citation" at Springerlink but it didn't seem to do anything. I'd like to get footnotes with references attached to some of the values for various flavours of earth radius, and this reference appears to be a definitive one for a number of useful values. Thanks in advance for your help. ☺Coppertwig (talk) 21:44, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Well, it's nice to see you "not really back", Coppertwig.  :-) I was able to persuade it to give me a BibTex citation, and you seem to be correct that it's dated from 2000. (Springerlink's site isn't the most intuitive, is it?) I've left a comment at the article. Jakew (talk) 21:54, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks!!☺Coppertwig (talk) 16:04, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

My pleasure. Could I tempt you to be "not really back" slightly more often, I wonder? It's such a pleasure to see you editing again... Jakew (talk) 16:07, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

Edit Warring

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war. Users who edit disruptively or refuse to collaborate with others may be blocked if they continue. In particular the three-revert rule states that making more than three reversions on a single page within a 24-hour period is almost always grounds for an immediate block. If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the talk page to discuss controversial changes. Work towards wording and content that gains consensus among editors. If unsuccessful, then do not edit war even if you believe you are right. Post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If edit warring continues, you may be blocked from editing without further notice. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ActuallyRationalThinker (talk • contribs)

Hmm, presumably this is intended as a response to this identical message left on your talk page. Generally speaking, one uses the {{uw-3rr}} template to a) ensure that the user is informed about the three revert rule, b) to discourage attempts to try to force through changes by repeated reverts, and c) to try to persuade them to use article talk pages to achieve consensus instead. Regarding the first point, I'm sure you're aware that you've now made three reverts in the last 24 hours. Regarding the latter two points, I'd like to draw your attention, once again, to the Talk:Circumcision page, where you'll find that a message has been waiting for discussion since before any of your reverts. I'd also like to make you aware of the bold, revert, discuss method of collaborative editing; attempting to force through changes as you've been doing is closer to bold-revert-revert-revert, which is not constructive or helpful. Once a change has been reverted it's much more sensible to discuss it on the talk page, to understand why it has been rejected and, perhaps, to attempt to find a satisfactory compromise. Jakew (talk) 19:24, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

(Further templating from ActuallyRationalThinker (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) deleted. Jakew (talk) 13:31, 30 December 2010 (UTC))

CDC Researcher

You mistate discussion, which sounds fully (comments within) rigged anyway. Important, quality (source), specific numbers, from a professional presentation, carried in mainstream media, needs to be included. It's offically confirmed that the rate continues to drop rapidly. It doesn't have to be a new paragraph in the later section.Horngren (talk) 18:58, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

No, I think my summary was accurate: there was no consensus in that discussion to include this material. I'm not going to debate the subject with you here, as it's not an appropriate place to discuss article content. If you want to discuss the subject, please create a new section at Talk:Circumcision. Jakew (talk) 19:17, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Look again for quality of argument in addition to the gist of discussion. Wiki guidelines require inclusion, unless there is strong specific objection, which there was not.Horngren (talk) 16:33, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

The arguments against inclusion were generally of higher quality, citing WP guidelines, etc. Jakew (talk) 16:39, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Are we reading the same pages? Hard to understand your position unless there's another.Horngren (talk) 17:11, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue LVIII, December 2010

Your military history newsletter – Volume LVIII, December 2010 From the editors • "Military Historian of the Year" • Discussions • The month's new featured and A-class content • Review awards Contest results • A-class medal recipients • bahamut teaches us proper usage of "Jargon and acronyms" To assist with preparing the newsletter, please visit the newsroom. Past editions may be viewed here. BrownBot (talk) 21:00, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Prevalence of Circumcision

You are misrepresenting the source.

"According to the National Hospital Discharge Survey (NHDS), 65% of newborns were circumcised in 1999, and the overall proportion of newborns circumcised was stable from 1979 through 1999."--72.153.93.197 (talk) 19:56, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

Good point. I've fixed it. Jakew (talk) 20:15, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

Circumcision The College of Physicians and Surgeons of British Columbia

Can you explain exactly how I am "misrepresenting the source?" My source is the The College of Physicians and Surgeons of British Columbia, medical body of the Province of British Columbia.--Sunfox1 (talk) 00:43, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Yes, the source you cited didn't make the points attributed to it. Jakew (talk) 08:17, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Here is the direct quote from the source: "Routine infant male circumcision performed on a healthy infant is now considered a non‐therapeutic and medically unnecessary intervention." Again, I do not see how I "misrepresented" the source (https://www.cpsbc.ca/files/u6/Circumcision-Infant-Male.pdf). Please explain. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sunfox1 (talk • contribs) 23:31, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

The source doesn't make the other claims: that it "adversely affects penile function and sexual pleasure", "is justified only by medical myths", "is extremely painful", and "is a violation of human rights". It is therefore a misrepresentation of the source to cite it as evidence of them. Jakew (talk) 08:04, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

The Bugle: Volume LVIX, January 2011

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Robin Weiss

Hi. Why not move this to mainspace?  --Lambiam 14:42, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

I'll be perfectly honest: I wrote most of the article and then totally forgot about it! Anyway, good idea. I've moved it. Jakew (talk) 17:12, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

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Notification of Automated Replies

Hey Jakew,

This is a friendly notification to inform you that automated notices are submitted to reported users on the WP:AN/EW noticeboard by User:NekoBot periodically during reviews of the page content to save editors from having to post their own notices and directly link to the report in question. Please see Wikipedia:Bots/Requests_for_approval/NekoBot and User:NekoBot for more information. + Crashdoom ^{Talk // NekoBot OP} 21:01, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

Talkback on User_Talk:Crashdoom

Hello, Jakew. You have new messages at Crashdoom's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Thanks for correcting the lead in Acorn Archimedes

Thank you for this edit. I don't know what I was thinking when I did this to the 18 MIPS (although the 4 MIPS was OK). --Trevj (talk) 10:08, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

To be honest, in my less pedantic moments, I've been known to refer to a MIP myself. It's such a common mistake that I can't help but wonder if it will become accepted usage (perhaps via a backronym of some kind).

I wonder if you could help with something. At the ARM architecture page the Acorn Archimedes is listed as an example usage of the ARM250. My recollection is that only the A3010 used the ARM250, and I can't remember if the A3010 was officially an Archimedes or not. My gut feeling is that it wasn't. (My recollection is that Acorn stopped using the Archimedes brand at around the time that the A5000 was launched. I seem to recall that the A3000 might've been an exception, but that may have just been the iconic red function keys interfering with my memory.) Do you happen to know? Jakew (talk) 10:22, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

Maybe you're right about the backronym! Anyway, as for the A3010 - I think you're right about that too. I'm not an expert on this though, graduating directly from a Beeb to a RiscPC without using any Acorn models in between. The link in the table is probably because there's currently no separate article for Acorn A3010. It might help to include the ARM cores at Acorn Archimedes#List of models (currently some are listed in the Notes column). I suppose the table currently at ARM architecture could link to A3010 for the ARM250. And, regarding the ARM250, I'll probably follow up this 'claimed first' here on Wikipedia some time. --Trevj (talk) 11:12, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue LXIV, June 2011

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Jakew is pro-circumcision, in my opinion.

I believe that Jakew is pro-circumcision. I edited a few pages, replacing "uncircumcised" with "intact", and he quickly reverts the page. The correct word for a penis that has not been circumcised is "intact" - not uncircumcised. Men who were never circumcised are not "uncircumcised" any more than women who never had a mastectomy are "unmastectomized." I don't have a problem if you are pro-circumcision, but we need to use correct terminology here at Wikipedia. Once again, the correct word for a penis that has NOT been circumcised is "intact." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kingrivera (talk • contribs)

I'm afraid you're incorrect, Kingrivera: the word defined as "not circumcised" is "uncircumcised"; see a dictionary entry. "Intact" has a broader meaning; it means "not altered, broken, or impaired; remaining uninjured, sound, or whole; untouched; unblemished" (see here). So, for example, if a penis has been tattooed but has a foreskin, it is uncircumcised, but isn't intact. So "intact" is actually insufficiently precise to describe a penis that has not been circumcised. Moreover, there are other problems: first that "intact" has non-neutral senses such as "not impaired, injured, or blemished" that should be avoided in a NPOV encyclopaedia, as Wikipedia cannot take a stance on whether circumcision does such a thing. Finally, the adjective "intact" is rarely used in scholarly sources to describe a penis that hasn't been circumcised; the term "uncircumcised" is far more common. Jakew (talk) 15:38, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

Most women are never circumcised. Are they also "uncircumcised" by your definition?