Talk:2011–12 FC Barcelona season

Location parameter

Seeing as this is the first thing you should have done by the objecting editor (especially after so many reverts), I guess I'll do it. "Why must it be change from how it was originally? It's following the same format from past seasons. Why change it now?" Just because that parameter was not used in previous seasons does not mean it can't be used in this and future article. The location parameter is in full use in plenty of other articles. I don't see any good reason why it can't be used here. It is a very useful parameter that only improves the article. Digirami (talk) 23:16, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

Copa Catalunya

Isn't the Copa Catalunya a recurring pre-season friendly tournament and not an official competition? No source claims Barcelona are aiming for a septuple this season, but the current infobox and Competition section suggests that. If the Copa Catalunya is indeed an unofficial cup, I think it should be removed from the infobox and merged into the Pre-season section instead of having its own section under Competitions, so to avoid confusion with an actual competition such as the Supercopa de España. Vanadus (talk) 04:08, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

It's not a pre-season tournament per say but it's not an official cup either. I think we should take it off the current infobox and competition section but not added to the pre-season schedule. Maybe after the pre-season section.La Fuzion (talk) 03:40, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

The current organization of the article suggests the Copa Catalunya is an official competition because the footballbox is grouped with the other competitions and because it has inclusion in the Overall table. In reality, the importance of the Copa Catalunya appears to be more similar to that of the Audi Cup or Joan Gamper Trophy than the Supercopa or Copa del Rey. And it does occur during the pre-season, so to me its makes sense to include it in that section rather than having its own awkward area between Pre-season and Overall. Vanadus (talk) 04:41, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

I agree especially because Pep will treat the game as a pre season game and start many B team players. It is a real competition but has very little importance to the teams playing in it. User:c46943 (talk) 4 August 2011 (UTC)

I'm not disagreeing but I don't think it should tied up to the pre-season exclusively. La Fuzion (talk) 13:43, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

I've made some changes so tell me if that works.La Fuzion (talk) 13:56, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

I like your changes. I'm good with leaving it like this. User:c46943 (talk) 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Why does the Copa Catalunya have its own section heading and not, say, the Audi Cup or Joan Gamper? To me, this still stresses a greater importance of the Copa Catalunya than the other friendlies. Vanadus (talk) 00:59, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

I get what you're saying so how do we solve the dilemma? Should we add it along with the Pre-season even thought it's not an official pre-season tournament? It is an official regional cup. La Fuzion (talk) 02:33, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

I don't think the Pre-season section only refers to official pre-season tournaments though. Plus what makes a pre-season tournament "official"? As far as I'm concerned all friendly matches before the season starts should be included in that section, with the Copa Catalunya being no exception. Vanadus (talk) 03:15, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

Names

In squad lists across club season articles, it is standard practice practice to display the full names of players or the nicknames of generally accepted exceptions (Brazilian players, for example). For this reason, the squad list has been changed to display a player's first and last name with the exceptions of the Brazilians and Xavi. Secondly, unless they are Brazilian, it is standard practice to display only the last name of player in score boxes, not what is on the back of the jersey. Hope you can understand. Digirami (talk) 20:52, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Raúl is known by his first name and he's not Brazilian, there's also Pedro, Jeffrén & Guti as a few example. It is not standard practice to show both names. See Arsenal and past Barcelona seasons as examples. La Fuzion (talk) 21:07, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Again, there maybe few exceptions. That's why Xavi was left untouched. But may I point to your attention 2011–12 Manchester United F.C. season, 2011–12 Chelsea F.C. season, 2010–11 A.C. Milan season, 2011–12 F.C. Internazionale Milano season, and every article in this category (among so many others). With Arsenal, you may have found the one other club who doesn't list the full name. It's standard to list the full name, not what is on the back of the jersey. Digirami (talk) 21:13, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Most of this category too. It's standard now, regardless of how the squadlist is displayed. Accept that fact. Digirami (talk) 21:19, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Those articles have a different format than this one. Arsenal and Barcelona season pages have the same set up so the format is the same. Why is this an issue for you? La Fuzion (talk) 21:36, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Even with the tables having different designs, the display of names are the same. The format used in this article is not an exception. Digirami (talk) 21:55, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

So editing the Arsenal page bolsters your point? La Fuzion (talk) 22:03, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

No, just the other one that needed to be changed. My point is proved with the vast amount of article that support my change. Digirami (talk) 22:18, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

I think this is an issue that perhaps needs to be brought up at WP:FOOTY. La Fuzion has a point in that the templates do indeed employ the jersey names, which is their method of standardization across articles. And since template:fb si player is a common one, implementing a contradictory parameter should be addressed first as it affects a large number of articles. Vanadus (talk) 01:11, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

As I told someone else on their talk page, displaying what's on the back of a jersey creates weird circumstances. I'm sure that guideline was in place when players only put their last name on the back of the jersey; it made things rather simple. However, some players do not have their last names on the back of their jersey. It's better to list Javier Hernández by his name instead of by Chicharito (the name on the back of the jersey), or Christian Benítez as Chucho (the name on the back of his shirt, especially when he was at Birmingham), to list a few examples. Even worse with a club that doesn't differentiate between two players with the same last name. Additionally, it isa very standard practice across club season articles to have the players listed by their first and last names (with few exceptions, mainly Brazilians). Digirami (talk) 01:45, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

Since your edits to Real Madrid, Arsenal, and Barcelona have all been either reverted or contended and a very large number of articles use jersey names, I do not think it is safe to assume silent consensus on this issue. Thus, I favor a discussion on WP:FOOTY or the template talk page. Vanadus (talk) 02:54, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

So why is Raúl González known as Raúl? Pedro Rodríguez Ledesma as Pedro? Jeffrén Suárez as Jeffrén, José María Gutiérrez Hernández as Guti? Bojan Krkić as Bojan? Oleguer Presas as Oleguer? Ángel López as Ángel? Miguel Alfonso Herrero as Michel? And I can keep going but you're obviously not going to let this go... La Fuzion (talk) 02:50, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

A large number (the very vast majority) of club season articles use full names. It's time for this to get the with the program. Take a look around, such as club season articles that have been rated "good" for an example (example). It's common practice now. I'm sure the guy who designed the template never meant for something other than last names (or Brazilian styled nicknames) to be displayed. And no, some of those players are not known exclusively by their first name. For example, I think the people at A.S. Roma do not refer to Bojan as just Bojan. But like I said, there are few exceptions (most of them being Brazilians). But for the most part, first and last name. It makes the article easier to understand. Digirami (talk) 04:39, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

I also favor a change to full names or professional names, but my concern is the decision to directly violate the documentation due to a preference. The benefit of using jersey names is that it does provide standardization. I will open a discussion on this on WP:FOOTY. Vanadus (talk) 07:27, 5 August 2011 (UTC)