Talk:Just-world fallacy

The examples given seem to have a strong 'male vs female' kind of emphasis. Is this just the nature of the examples chosen, or does the just-world phenomenon apply primarily to this kind of situation? Either way, I think it would be nice to be more explicit in the article. -- S

This article was at the very least inspired by the mention of the JWP in the Rape article, where unfortunately it had been placed there by an anonymous editor pushing a POV. If you can balance out the examples, please do so, it'll improve the article. -- Antaeus Feldspar 11:49, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I believe the universe is totally just, thats why there's reincarnation, Karma, spirituality, etc.. --Jondel 05:37, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Victim Blame: A Bibliography

Victim Blame: A Bibliography -- I found this link iffy enough as an external link to Rape, since it's less a "bibliography" and more a collection of quotes and links for those who hold a particular POV. I have even more misgivings about making it an external link here at Just-world phenomenon, since it cites the JWP but provides absolutely no information that the article doesn't about the JWP. Does anyone disagree and think there's a reason it should be kept? -- Antaeus Feldspar 11:49, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Karma as a cognitive bias

20040302: "Karma is not about Just-world cognitive bias." JoshuaZ: "It is a related notion and as colloquially used is very similar"

I am sure JZ must be aware that the notion of karma as cognitive bias is impressively provocative. I agree that the (somewhat reductive) colloquial use of 'Karma' bears some relevance to Just-world, but the Karma article is more focussed on the religious doctrine of the Dharma religions, against which the assertion karma is a cognitive bias is a statement of doctrine which indicates Belief bias. I can recognise the potential for a Karma (colloquial) article, which could provide an intermediate link between this and the Karma article. However, the current link shows a strong cultural bias away from the primary sources of Karma - where it (karma) represents the metaphysical assertion of psycho-physical causality: that we are subject to the consequences of our actions, and not that we get what we deserve.

If we are to bring religion into articles on cognitive bias (which IMO is treading on dangerous ground) then there are plenty of links missing for this (and many other) articles within the cognitive bias category and I substantially object to the singling out of one religious doctrine as an example of cognitive bias. It could be argued that early civilisation developed religion as a means of social control - and the use of the just-world hypothesis was developed by most societies as a successful means of improving social cohesion, which in itself provided us with the stability that allowed for the development of modern constructs such as cognitive science. (20040302 09:43, 6 March 2006 (UTC))

I think it would make more sense to add a section into the Karma article about the colloquial meaning. I may do this when I have time. JoshuaZ 16:01, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Well, fair enough - but until you do that, it is a mistake to link to Karma from this article. (20040302 09:42, 7 March 2006 (UTC))

Okay, it's been four years. It didn't happen, and since then, WP has upped it's requirements for WP:RS. I am removing Karma from the article. (20040302 (talk) 12:09, 20 February 2010 (UTC))

I see that over the last year, Karma has once more been added to this article. As I have mentioned over the last five years, Karma as a religious concept has very little to do with the just-world hypothesis. A modernised non-contextual and western colloquial reading - as "he got his karma" is justifiable, but a link to the Karma article is not. The religious concept of Karma is deeply related to continuity of consciousness after death, and for most traditions the doctrinal usage of considering Karma as a means of describing a just-world is an anathema, and unrelated to this article. (20040302 (talk) 20:13, 24 May 2011 (UTC))

Citations!

I look at the article, and every second sentence wants a citation. Where is this information coming from? Remember, Wikipedia isn't an indiscriminate collection of information... 60.224.228.166 16:04, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

This sh** is so wack I don't even know where to start. It begins by claiming that "the world is fundamentally UNjust..." I mean, where is the evidence? How do we know that there is not an opposite tendency to view the world as fundamentally unjust? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.129.251.62 (talk) 06:00, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Style of Writing

"In this way, if something good (like winning the lottery) or bad (like getting hit by a car immediately after winning the lottery) occurs, people attribute the occurrence to the person, not to a chance turn of events." This line seems to strike me as somewhat satirical, if anything. It's enjoyable to read, don't get me wrong, but is it really Wiki-worthy?

Odd grammer

One study gave women what appeared to be painful electric shocks while working on a difficult memory problem. Those who observed the experiment appeared to blame the victim for her fate, praised the experiment, and rated her as being less physically attractive than did those who had seen her but not the experiment.

Loss of faith: yet another application of "jaw"

Firstly, I personally prefer hypothesis over phenomenon, for the reason that it implies the aspect of thinking that is in the pre-theory phase of the scientific method; that "jw" is as much a scientific issue as it is philosophic or psychological.

In the two years I have been going to a fairly conservative back-woods church whose pastor is a protege of Norman Vincent Peale, I have found that the parishioners' religious zeal against the various ills of the world (pure constructivism) is seemingly negated by the concept that God is fully in charge, and that things really are the way He means them to be. I am personally classifying this phenomena as "jw," and viewing it as a cognitive issue, sort of like fear of flying. Has anyone had similar thoughts?

This may also go to "loss of faith" issues that affect people of Western monotheism, but not other religions that put God farther out, and hence are less "in control" such as traditional Native American faith and Buddhism. I may pursue "jw" wrt religion on the wv.--John Bessa (talk) 13:45, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

I listed carefully to the pastor's core mini-sermon that "our God is a loving god" and "a parent to us all" that he recited especially deeply now that Christmas is coming. It confirmed for me that, despite Christianity's closeness to Judaism, Christianity is fundamentally revolutionary (in the long-term scope) in that it conveys spirituality purely in terms of emotional communication. The emotional benefits are implicit, so perhaps it is a the concept of God as a controlling, rather than permissive, parent that is creating the quandary that is frustrating the long-standing naturally moral influences of compassionate religions on society. And perhaps there is a parallel within churches that likewise frustrates these influences internally. These frustrations may be leading society into the religious decline of our time, allowing a complete take-over of society by exploitative forces. --John Bessa (talk) 13:33, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

The idea of comparing God to a father is to say that God has absolut limitless authority. Under Roman law the oldest male in a household had power of life and death over all them member of the household. So saying God is like father meat that God had that kind of power. Seano1 (talk) 00:46, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Redirecting

Unless someone objects within the next few days I'm redirecting this to Victim blaming since it is better covered there. MartinDK 11:28, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Page is misnamed

I have known it always thus, and it isn't just me:

• Google search hits for "just world phenomena" -- 12,200
• Same for "just world hypothesis" -- 160,000

I think I can explain this "phenomena" in terms of creep . --John Bessa (talk) 15:06, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

It has been more than a year w/o comment, so I think the "phenomena" change needs to be reverted.--John Bessa (talk) 16:54, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

I agree. I think this proposal is non-controversial so i should just go ahead and move it. --Penbat (talk) 18:53, 24 May 2011 (UTC) Just done it myself--Penbat (talk) 19:14, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

Woo hoo! I expected long, drawn-out trench warfare; thanks for the admin work, Penbat. --John Bessa (talk) 19:54, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

As a world-view in psychological assessments

Doing a psych masters degree has brought me in touch with endless personality theory, which, from what I can tell uses theory as a vehicle for personal or cultural world-view. In other words, you can learn about different world views by looking at assessment tools and their manuals such as comparing the five-factor personality test that is online and the six-factor commercial version that competes with it: night and day differences. Going to the Myers and Myers-Briggs adulteration of Jungian personality typing, you get the feeling that introverted and judging link to just world views, and that the introverted and judging attempt as hard as they can to be flexible, because it is necessary for life, but cannot -- they really need the rule book to function and cannot conceive of others not needing it, and hence they control them with it.