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==About==
==About==
{{off topic}}
These forces were generally associated with [[Richard de Clare, 2nd Earl of Pembroke|Richard "Strongbow" de Clare]], [[Hugh de Lacy]], and [[Gilbert de Angulo]] who organised the [[Norman invasion of Ireland]] in 1168-72. The first family to be thus recognised was the [[de Angulo]], known as Mac Coisdealbha (i.e. Gilbert, son of Jocelyn) the name which was given to his descendants in [[Connacht]]. It was rendered into English as MacCostello, which in time became [[Costello]].<ref>Originally Mag Oisdealbhaigh as in classical Irish the initial vowel changed the ''c'' into a ''g'', for example: Mag Aonghusa is now Mac Aonghusa, Mag Uidhir is now Mac Uidhir.</ref> While this phenomenon is associated with earlier invaders (see [[Norse-Gaels]]), it is particularly associated with the post-12th century predominantly Norman but also English settlers who became known as the [[Hiberno-Normans]] and [[Old English (Ireland)|Old English]]. It is rarely associated with later arrivals from the 16th century onwards.
These forces were generally associated with [[Richard de Clare, 2nd Earl of Pembroke|Richard "Strongbow" de Clare]], [[Hugh de Lacy]], and [[Gilbert de Angulo]] who organised the [[Norman invasion of Ireland]] in 1168-72. The first family to be thus recognised was the [[de Angulo]], known as Mac Coisdealbha (i.e. Gilbert, son of Jocelyn) the name which was given to his descendants in [[Connacht]]. It was rendered into English as MacCostello, which in time became [[Costello]].<ref>Originally Mag Oisdealbhaigh as in classical Irish the initial vowel changed the ''c'' into a ''g'', for example: Mag Aonghusa is now Mac Aonghusa, Mag Uidhir is now Mac Uidhir.</ref> While this phenomenon is associated with earlier invaders (see [[Norse-Gaels]]), it is particularly associated with the post-12th century predominantly Norman but also English settlers who became known as the [[Hiberno-Normans]] and [[Old English (Ireland)|Old English]]. It is rarely associated with later arrivals from the 16th century onwards.


Revision as of 07:18, 24 October 2011

"More Irish than the Irish themselves" (Irish: Níos Gaelaí ná na Gaeil iad féin, Latin: Hiberniores Hibernis ipsis) is a phrase used in the Middle Ages to describe the phenomenon whereby foreigners who came to Ireland attached to invasion forces tended to be subsumed into Irish social and cultural society, adopted the Irish language, Irish culture, style of dress and a wholesale identification with all things Irish.[1]

S.J. Connolly states that the phrase is in fact an invention of later Irish nationalist historians who wished to assert the dominance of a single Irish (i.e. Gaelic) culture. Connolly has written, "The descendents of the English conquerors, it was confidently proclaimed, had become 'more Irish than the Irish themselves'. Today it is recognized that the supposedly contemporary phrase dates only from the late eighteenth century, the Latin form (Hiberniores ipsis Hibernis) sometimes used to give it an authentic medieval ring from later still."[2]

About

These forces were generally associated with Richard "Strongbow" de Clare, Hugh de Lacy, and Gilbert de Angulo who organised the Norman invasion of Ireland in 1168-72. The first family to be thus recognised was the de Angulo, known as Mac Coisdealbha (i.e. Gilbert, son of Jocelyn) the name which was given to his descendants in Connacht. It was rendered into English as MacCostello, which in time became Costello.[3] While this phenomenon is associated with earlier invaders (see Norse-Gaels), it is particularly associated with the post-12th century predominantly Norman but also English settlers who became known as the Hiberno-Normans and Old English. It is rarely associated with later arrivals from the 16th century onwards.

Another notable example were the Scoto-Irish-Norman Bissett family of the Glens of Antrim, who soon after their arrival in Ulster in the 13th century adopted the Gaelic style of Mac Eoin Bisset, now ancestral to both the surnames McKeon/McKeown and Bissett.

Usage

The phrase is still commonly used however, both colloquially and in the media, in reference to immigration and assimilation in Ireland, and to some degree about some of the Irish diaspora (for example in The Irish Times,[4] Sen. Jim Walsh,[5] Dr. Liam Twomey TD,[6] or Irish Emigrant[7]) or in conversation discussing the relationship between the cultural heritage of the Irish diaspora and the Irish in Ireland.[8] While still echoing its original meaning, contemporary usage of the phrase usually takes a more open interpretation of assimilation or, in the case of the diaspora, the maintenance of Irish heritage.

Debates of the Oireachtas demonstrate the age and range of contemporary applications of the phrase. Either when discussing the diaspora:

I do not think this country will afford sufficient allurements to the citizens of other States ... The children of Irish parents born abroad are sometimes more Irish than the Irish themselves, and they would come with added experience and knowledge to our country....

— Sen. Patrick Kenny, 1924 [9]

Or, more light-heartedly, on assimilation:

... [As] in olden times the attractiveness of Irish life made the Norman invaders ... ‘Hiberniores Hibernicis ipsis’, ‘more Irish than the Irish themselves’, so the charms of Galway, experienced through 25 happy years, have made a woman, born in one of the severed counties, feel entitled to describe herself as ‘Galviensior Galviensibus ipsis’ – ‘more Galwegian than the Galwegians themselves’.

— Helena Concannon TD, 1937 [10]

Notes

  1. ^ MacLysaght, Edward. More Irish Families. Irish Academic Press. ISBN 0-7165-0126-0. Retrieved 2006-11-20. Some became completely integrated, giving rise to the well known phrase 'Hiberniores Hibernis ipsis' (more Irish than the Irish themselves). These formed septs on the Gaelic-Irish pattern, headed by a chief.
  2. ^ Connolly, S. J. (2009). Contested Island: Ireland 1460-1630 (1st ed.). London: Oxford University Press. pp. 34–35. ISBN 978-0-19-956371. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); C1 control character in |pages= at position 4 (help); Check |isbn= value: length (help)
  3. ^ Originally Mag Oisdealbhaigh as in classical Irish the initial vowel changed the c into a g, for example: Mag Aonghusa is now Mac Aonghusa, Mag Uidhir is now Mac Uidhir.
  4. ^ LookWest. "More Irish Than the Irish Themselves?". Archived from the original on 2006-07-15. Retrieved 2006-11-20.
  5. ^ "Dáil Éireann". Retrieved 2006-11-20.
  6. ^ "Dáil Éireann". Retrieved 2006-11-20.
  7. ^ MacConnell, Cormac. "The Pull of the City of the Tribes". Archived from the original on 2007-09-27. Retrieved 2006-11-20.
  8. ^ "have you heard of this". Retrieved 2006-11-20.
  9. ^ Kenny, Patrick. "Seanad Éireann – Volume 2 – 15 January 1924". Retrieved 2006-11-21.
  10. ^ Concannon, Helena. "Dáil Éireann – Volume 68 – 9 June 1937". Retrieved 2006-11-21.
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