Talk:Takis Fotopoulos

Untitled

This page survived an AfD. The discussion can be found here. enochlau (talk) 00:34, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

I deleted "Having contributed only a handful of publications to peer-reviewed journals, and none to mainstream newspapers like The Guardian (see [1] or [2] for articles that were rejected)" because he has contributed articles to mainstream newspapers in Greece and Turkey. I also deleted "managed" because it was useless, not to say, offending.--TheVel 13:56, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

A cursory reading of the Guardian articles shows to any regular reader of this newspaper that the articles were in fact REFUSED (not rejected) for obvious political reasons, given that the Guardian line on both was opposite to the one supported by Fotopoulos, who has frequently not hesitated in his writings to criticise the reformist line of this paper.It is not accidental that the Guardian never published articles by, say, Murray Bookchin or other significant libertarian writers, particularly if they referred to current political events (Student in Britain) 18:46, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

I deleted, "Although he never got a PH.D." and an inaccurate paragraph about heated exchanges. I replaced it with a more accurate account with links.--john sargis 6:05, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I believe it's valid to include Fotopoulos' lack of a PhD degree in this article; In his english-language CV, as posted on his own website[3], no postgraduate or doctoral studies are mentioned. In the Greek version[4], however, he does mention that he received a postgraduate degree in Economics from the London School of Economics. Do note, also, that, in the Greek version of his bio, Fotopoulos translates the english term "Senior Lecturer" as "καθηγητής", which is the Greek term for "Professor". Quite misleading on his behalf, no? And I have to note his rather dramatic[5] stance on the whole Wikipedia article about him, as well as the whole AfD debacle shows that Fotopoulos has a serious problem with people cross-checking facts about him and scrutinizing his positions and work. Coming from Greece, I think this has a bit to do with his status as a "Holy Cow" among Greek leftist theorists and I am quite sure he tries to exploit the language barrier to its fullest. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.66.176.47 (talk) 19:47, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Violation of WP:OWN by ID members

john sargis needs to learn to respect Wikipedia's rules and stop removing referenced additions that were made to the article. I understand that John Sargis, being a member of Inclusive Democracy (therefore a biased editor), gets upset at the thought that international readers will realize that Mr. Fotopoulos has embarked on a smear campaign against many democratic movements (such as Democracy Now!) and even the Free Software movement, but this has got to stop. NOW. Otherwise, I'm going to end up reporting his antics to the administration of Wikipedia for whatever further actions need to be undertaken against this disruptive behavior. As for the Inclusive Democracy's melodramatic and rather libelous against Wikipedia announcement (basically, we are talking about Mr. Fotopoulos and his few Greek followers) of withdrawal from Wikipedia[6], I find it rather amusing (to say the very least) to see that they do not honor it. Men of honor stand by their word - at least that's what I thought so far. Elp gr (talk) 18:42, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Elp gr attacked the biography of Mr. Fotopoulos, just by sheer speculation, based on articles that Fotopoulos didn' t even write, as is shown in the talk page of john sargis. In fact all allegations by Elp gr are feeble, based on sheer very personal speculation, without any reliable Secondary sources dealing with Takis Fotopoulos work, as are the references in his biography. These allegations, in fact, seem to be completely biased and not accidental, as Inclusive Democracy has been under attack by a tiny group of bloggers because of Takis Fotopoulos' and others' proposal for direct-democratic and self-managed blogging by the bloggers and internet activists themselves. This libertarian ideal is something users (hopefully, a small minority) like Elp gr don' t desire, for reasons e.g. like the ...easiness to distort Mr. Fotopoulos' biography, due, obviously, to their personal libellous interest. It is indicant that the withdrawal from the Wikipedia mentioned above was also well substantiated, with specific facts that were also certified by Wikipedia adiministrators as well. So, it is more than a lie that Fotopoulos or Inclusive Democracy want Wikipedia "censored".Panlis (talk) 01:07, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Oh please. If you don't like Mr. Fotopoulos and his team's announcements being referenced here, maybe these announcementw shouldn't be written in the first place. After all, they are taken from his own website. As for the "direct democracy in the Greek blogosphere" etc, Mr. Fotopoulos and his team set against internet anonymity and also, in an email (which has now been published online) he sent to another blogger, Mr. Fotopoulos threatened a blogger with continuous harassment until the blogger would end up suing Mr. Fotopoulos, thus providing Mr. Fotopoulos with the blogger's personal information. Why would Mr. Fotopoulos want the personal information of someone who just happens to not agree with him 100%? Ask Mr. Fotopoulos, if you wish. Furthermore, Mr. Fotopoulos, in one of his recent Greek-language announcements, has labeled an important blog/news aggregator (the "You Pay Your Crisis" blog) as an... "instrument of the Israeli Embassy". Also, have you heard the news? It is not the (unpaid for 9 months now) personnel of Eleftherotypia that caused its publication to be "suspended". It was its ownership's mismanagement, which led to its bankruptcy. Elp gr (talk) 03:34, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Well, lies after stacks of lies, just for the sake of vandalism. These articles are taken from the Inclusive Democracy web site [7], which is not Mr. Fotopoulos' web site, but the Inclusive Democracy web site, that is a whole political organization. Obviously, you can' t even read the labels in a web site and who signs the articles and announcements, so what are you doing in Wikipedia, really? Attributing another person' work to another is a blatant logical fallacy and distortion, by any standard, and this would be sufficient for any kind of slander, as your vandalisms. The same applies to the fact that of course when and if someone smears somebody else repeatedly and does a personal attack without verifiable evidence, through anonymity, based on speculation and hir/her personal interest e.g. in the Left or in some internet business, this could be a good reason for the latter to sue the former for the slanders, although Mr. Fotopoulos has never done this before, as he explicitly stated, in his 71 years of age. Of course slander is by no means a kind of disagreement, as you comfortably present it, but there are standard criteria in rational and/or scientific discourse which define what slander is, like unsubstantiated or poorly substantiated attacks, arbitrary censorship, etc.. And Mr. Fotopoulos justly wanted to defend himself and his work from this sort of insidious and defaming distortion and censorship against ID and himself in some new media like Indymedia and some blogs, as he had every right to do, regardless if this is in the internet or anywhere else in the publishing world.

Moreover, he did not proceed with these just (in the context mentioned) "threats", but he proposed, as he had done many times in the past, self-management and direct democratic decision making of bloggers and internet activists themselves, which should abide by some ethics and self-control, as used broadely in every section of serious social activity, in all sort of publications etc..

Second, you repeat the same false and malicious arguments that you added to john sargis talk page and to which I replied there. If you don' t want to abide by the rules set by Wikipedia you should not repeat what has been plausibly replied with specific evidence and not distortion, then you could be easily deemed a vandal in Wikipedia. All info about this blog "You Pay Your Crisis", along with specific evidence of what happened, has been posted. So Mr. Fotopoulos did not call the blog "an instrument of the Israeli Embassy" as you repeat, but he just parallelized what the blog implied about Mr. Fotopoulos antisemitism (and what you also implied, just copying/pasting these unsubstantiated claims!), with what the Israeli Embassy thought of him. The "instrument of the Israeli Embassy" moto is what the blogger who censored Mr. Fotopoulos and Inclusive Democracy claimed (links in john sargis talk page), in order to defame him and supposedly turn this blog into a "victim". So, a biased adoption of this "claim" on your behalf, distorting the other' s words is a logical jump and fallacy which is also obviously malicious, with everything this implies for your motives.

Last, you repeat the same lie about Eleftherotypia: Eleftherotypia was filed for bankruptcy, as this is a normal legalistic device to avoid proceedings by creditors, but in the meantime there are discussions for the sale of 30% of shares to another publisher who has already agreed to continue publication and at the moment it just suspended publication because of the strike of the stuff, not because of "bankruptcy", as you misconstrue the case.Panlis (talk) 13:38, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

OK then, I'll start translating everything that was written. Elp gr (talk) 16:04, 13 January 2012 (UTC)