Talk:Blood–brain barrier

Something Important That Is Not Explained In the Article

And which is now inquired about here, up at the top of the discussion, for the sake of attracting attention. Right near the beginning of the article on the blood-brain barrier, it needs to be explained what species of animals have this barrier and which ones do not. I will next be more specific to clarify what I mean by this problem.
A. Is the blood-brain barrier only possessed by human beings?
B. Is the blood-brain barrier only possessed by the great apes, including human beings?
C. Is the blood-brain barrier only possessed by primates?
D. Is the blood-brain barrier only possessed by primates, plus the larger and more- intelligent species such as elephants, cattle, horses, canines, felines (cats, lions, etc.), cetaceans (whales, dolpins, etc.), and swine?
E. Is the blood-brain barrier only possessed by mammals of all kinds?
F. Is the blood-brain barrier possessed by birds?
G. Is the blood-brain barrier possessed by reptiles?
H. Is the blood-brain barrier possessed by amphibians?
I. Is the blood-brain barrier possessed by fish?
J. Is the blood-brain barrier possessed by some kinds of invertebrates?

Stating what varieties of creatures have the blood-brain barrier, and which ones don't, is an important issue.
As it stands now, this article is rather like one on "The Appendix" that does not mention what species have one and what species do not. I recently read a science-news article that mentioned that there are many different species of mammals that have appendices, but many, many species of mammals that do not. The article was more specific than this, but that is beside the point - to go further than this. The example is made.98.67.164.50 (talk) 15:22, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Ecstasy

New research indicates that the drug ecstasy "may damage" the blood-brain barrier: http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn8314

Too tired to write it up. Have at it, boys. (Unsigned. By 71.246.233.74, 03:49, 15 November 2005.)

Blood-brain barrier

Has anybody have any notes on affects of cell-phones on the Blood Brain Barrier?

hydkat 05:52, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

See http://www.ehponline.org/docs/2003/6039/abstract.html.

For orally administered drugs there seems to be some guidelines, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipinski's_Rule_of_Five

Also try, Proudfoot, Bioorganic and Medicinal Chemistry Letter 15, 1087

/mfg Have anyone info what happen to BBB during traumatic stress? I suspect my Multiple Sclerosis was a result from a traumatic accident. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 120.28.209.238 (talk) 04:28, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Drugs Targeting the Brain

If dye can travel from the spine to the brain, why can't we administer drugs to the brain by injecting it into the spine?

A. Because getting needles stuck into cerebral fluid not only is dangerous, but it really hurts.

I am not an expert; but I found some drugs / antibiotics can cross the blood brain barrier.

We also need to mention the action of anti-psychotic medication as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Amishra222 (talk • contribs) 01:27, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

Permeability to alcohol

I mentioned in the article that the BBB is permeable to alcohol, but I didn't go into details explaining thats why the feeling of being drunk affects people when they drink (having alcohol in their blood-stream). Darwin's Bulldog 16:54, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

L-DOPA?

"[...] the endothelial cells metabolize certain molecules to prevent their entry into the central nervous system; the most-studied example of this is L-DOPA."

According to the L-DOPA Wikipedia entry, its is dopamine itself that is unable to traverse the BBB, and it is the ability of L-DOPA to cross the BBB that is responsible for its mechanism of action.

What's the deal? -- Mark Lundquist 00:35, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Yeah L-Dopa is used for Parkinson's as it can get through the BBB. You're right

Actually, the L-DOPA is able to cross the BBB but it gets degraded in the cells by monoamine oxidase, and thus is not accessible to brain neurones. This is why Parkinsons's treatment with L-DOPA is always given coincidently with MAOIs (monoamine oxidase inhibitors). (Kandel, Principles of neuroscience) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Siamesesecret (talk • contribs) 14:00, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

BAFFLING REDIRECTION?

This is the sort of thing that undermines Wikipedia's reputation:

"Blood-brain Barrier

(Redirected from Blood-cerebrospinal fluid barrier)

The blood-brain barrier (abbreviated BBB, not to be confused with the blood-cerebrospinal fluid barrier... )"

Well played, Wikipedia, well played. Hey, I'm not the only one who came here to point this out. Any experts want to start an article on the blood-CSF barrier, if, indeed, it is disctinct from the BBB?

Whoever wrote the above clearly does not understand the concept of taking any kind of measures "for the time being". The blood-brain barrier and the blood-cerebralspinal fluid barrier clearly have many aspects in common with each other. Knowing a good deal about one clearly helps one to know something about the other.

Thus, given the absence of an article on the "blood-cerebralspinal fluid barrier", it is better to redirect from a request for that article to the article on the blood-brain barrier than to give nothing at all. Some people don't understand such ideas nowadays, but there is an old, old saying about having half a loaf of bread is better than no loaf at all - thus why go about whining about not having a full loaf when you do have half a loaf?

At some future time, when someone creates an article on the "blood-cerebralspinal fluid barrier" (if such a thing does exist), then the redirects can be modified then.98.67.164.50 (talk) 14:53, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

If an article is missing or redirecting wrong, you're more than welcome to create that article. As you clearly seem to be of the opinion that you know very much about this specific area, then why not take the opportunity to contribute? Articles won't make them self you know, even if it might seem so when you click and everything just pops up. Stop complaining and get to work! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tamte (talk • contribs) 18:57, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Mistake or just a typo?

Glial cells surrounding capilaries in the brain pose a secondary hindrance to hydrophillic molecules, and the low concentration of interstitial proteins in the brain prevent access by hydrophilic molecules.

Hydrophillic and hydrophilic. Is there just an extra l or should one of these be hydrophobic instead? --TuukkaH 20:04, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Somebody fixed the typo, but does this sentence now make sense? I have no expertise here at all, but from the semantics, it certainly seems as if one of these words should be hydrophobic (I would guess the first one). Would someone who knows please fix this (if it is, in fact, incorrect)?Eaglizard 18:50, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Ependymal cells??

This entry had the following in the opening section: "Astrocytes, a type of glial cell specific to the central nervous system, form a tight barrier between the blood capillaries of the brain and the ependymal cells lining the ventricles of the brain." I cannot see the relevance of this. Astrocytes support the epithelial cells of the BBB, but are not an essential part. I am deleting this sentence and adding something more relevant. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Benbest (talk • contribs) 06:05, 17 February 2007 (UTC).

Oops! --Ben Best 13:06, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Bit of cleanup

I rewrote most of the sections of this article slightly to make them more readable to the lay audience (i.e., myself). As always, I tried to avoid changing the factual substance of anything, as I am completely inexpert in this field. I have faith any errors I have introduced will be quickly healed. :) I hope my complete rewrite of the first (and most important) paragraph is satisfactory, in particular. It does seem to me that the last sections (the various specific diseases) devolve into heavily obscure jargon, but I don't feel qualified to mess with those. Eaglizard 18:50, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

I rewrote the introduction of this article to clear up the nature of the BBB (to address Kvng's critique) and its function (to address my own). Please proof my edits. PVSpud (talk) 13:24, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

When is the blood-brain barrier in place?

At birth, or later? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.194.21.50 (talk) 13:31, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

How about before birth? Fetal human brains might need protection from organic poisons that are ingested by the mother. However, those my be blocked by the placenta -- but two layers of protection are better than just one.98.67.164.50 (talk) 14:37, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Retina?

There was a sentence fragment in the introduction that looked like it once contained information but no longer made any sense. I deleted it, but the author should feel free to replace the information. (see the diff of my last edit)

mcs (talk) 01:34, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

MCOTW

This article is now MCOTW. It is a bit uncommon for anatomy and physiology articles to become MCOTW, and we don't actually have much precedent. What I do see is that the article needs a lot of cleanup (there are multiple sections called "physiology"), and I don't think we should be discussing the role of the BBB in every single disease. We need to discuss various parallel concepts (blood-retina barrier, blood-testicle barrier, blood-nerve barrier). And rather than nanoparticles we should be focussing on actual medicines... JFW | T@lk 15:42, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Well, not an awful lot has happened. Boring. I'm closing this MCOTW early. Better next time. JFW | T@lk 10:31, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Head image

What do you think of the image I added? I quite like it, but perhaps not to everyone's tastes. Cheers, Basie (talk) 05:31, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Also note http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Tightjunction_BBB.jpg. Basie (talk) 05:33, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Where is it?

After careful reading, I gather that the BBB is an integral part of the capillaries delivering blood to the brain. Those like me who might come to this article under the impression that the BBB is an organ in the head somewhere will have a hard time getting themselves properly oriented. The article doesn't clearly locate the BBB. It does describe where the barrier is located at a cellular level. It does indicate that it is part of "CNS vessels" --Kvng (talk) 15:08, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Yes, this article does need to state clearly that the blood-bran barrier exists in the linings of almost all of the capillaries of the human brain, and in 100% of the capillaries of the cerebrum. No beating around the bush is acceptable.98.67.164.50 (talk) 14:34, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Basic Permeability and Anatomy

I think this article could benefit greatly from a simple explanation of what the barrier blocks and where it is located. I believe the cerebral capillaries are contained in the choroid plexus and that the barrier is permeable to hydrophobic molecules (which passively diffuse?) while hydrophilic molecules (e.g. glucose) require active transport. The link http://electricwords.emfacts.com/csiro/chapter8.html helped with the permeability. —Preceding unsigned comment added by PVSpud (talk • contribs) 13:08, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

That's a rather absurd statement to make: "cerebral capillaries are contained in the" (any specific location at all). Cerebral capillaries are located, spaced rather tightly, everywhere at all in the cerebrum. Everywhere in the human cerebrum there is a high demand for oxygen and sugar by the brain cells, and a correspondingly-high output of carbon dioxide and other metabolic products that need to be removed. Thus, there is a strong need for capillaries tightly-spaced, everywhere in the cerebrum. In addition, there is the same kind of high demand for these inputs and outputs everywhere in the human brain, such as in the cerebellum and in all of the "lower" or "older" parts of the brain from the evolutionary point-of-view. (I just call them the "R-complex" as Carl Sagan did in his Pulitzer Prize-winning book, The Dragons of Eden.

To summarize simply, cerebral capillaries are located everywhere within the cerebrum, and there is also a tight network of capillaries everywhere else in the human brain.98.67.164.50 (talk) 14:31, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Image

Could be cropped and used:

• File:Schematic drawing of cellular regulation of extracellular glutamate concentrations.jpg --CopperKettle 20:02, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

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BBB vs blood-CSF barrier

OK the page is WRONG, you need to talk about csf barrier, it is different than the endothelial bloood brain barrier. The begininng of the article confused me. It needs to be fixed immediatly. MD SIDHU, March 2010 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Md Sidhu (talk • contribs) 15:18, 15 March 2010 (UTC) Bold textang pangit mo biboy --180.191.25.34 (talk) 10:33, 8 May 2010 (UTC) ang pogi ni justin

I agree. There is inconsistency in the article in that the opening sentence refers to the BBB as the barrier between the blood and CSF, and then goes on to talk about endothelial cells & astrocytes. If my understanding is correct, the BBB refers to the blood-BECF (brain extracellular fluid) barrier, not the blood-CSF barrier. The BBB involves the tight-junction endothelium & astrocytes, whereas the blood-CSF barrier involves more leaky endothelium & ependymal cells of the choroid plexuses. 96.247.98.242 (talk) 00:00, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

typo in heading?

It says 'molecules into the CSF, while' Is this supposed to be CNS? CSF isnt expanded anywhere. 83.25.87.166 (talk) 20:34, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

nevermind, found it: CSF -> Cerebrospinal fluid 83.25.87.166 (talk) 20:41, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

Sketch of the BBB

Could anyone take some time to translate the schematic there? It's in German and I would translate it of I spoke it, but I don't. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ianfitz100 (talk • contribs) 21:00, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

Material of blood brain barrier

Can someone confirm the blood brain barrier is made of endothelial cells, and is not fluid? 129.180.166.53 (talk) 13:36, 10 June 2012 (UTC)