Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Schlock Mercenary

Schlock Mercenary

Schlock Mercenary (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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Nearly every source is the comic itself. The only good source is an interview with the author. WCCA and Hugo Award are not sufficient to carry a webcomic — several WCCA winners have been deleted anyway. I couldn't find any sources about this that weren't primary. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 11:05, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Webcomics-related deletion discussions. ★☆ DUCKISPEANUTBUTTER☆★ 11:17, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Science fiction-related deletion discussions. ★☆ DUCKISPEANUTBUTTER☆★ 11:17, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

• Keep a Hugo award nomination is indeed sufficient, and if you follow the links to the Hugo Award for Best Graphic Story, you'll find multiple nominations listed there, with inline citations for each. Those multiple major award nominations would be sufficient for a personal article under WP:ANYBIO. Jclemens (talk) 23:55, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
• Keep. Hugo Award nom: [1]. The comic was a finalist in the Washington Post's Best Webcomic poll. [2]. The comic itself has also been quoted by the Nyasa Times. [3]. Even Wikipedia related: [4], [5]. Reviewed by the University Press of North Georgia: [6]. Cited in a book printed by the Institute of International Visual Arts: [7]. Also: [8], [9], [10], [11], [12]. "Couldn't find any sources that weren't primary" translates to "failure of WP:BEFORE" here. TPH, noms like this are why you keep drawing the ire of the community. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 00:42, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

• Regarding #1: The Hugo Award is not inherently notable. #2: Reader polls are not sufficient. #3: Do you really think being quoted in passing is a reliable non-trivial coverage? #4 and #5 are trivial too. #6 is a college paper. #7 is only a directory listing which says nothing about the strip, just names it. #8 is also a reader poll and therefore not reliable, significant coverage. #9 is a name-drop in reference to something else entirely — all it says is that the writer reads it. #10 and #11 are also name-drops. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 02:41, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

• The bottom line here is that the notability guidelines are badly broken when it comes to webcomics. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 02:44, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

• So you're arguing "keep" even though you know the notability guidelines are broken? That makes absolutely zero goddamn sense. It's been my experiences that the notability bar is pretty high for webcomics — and that WCCA and Hugo are not sufficient. Nor is being printed. Nor is being name dropped here and there. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 03:06, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

• No, I'm arguing "keep" because the notability guidelines are broken. By a strict interpretation of the guidelines, this is, by your argument, not notable. WP:COMMONSENSE, however, says that it is, and this is hardly the first time that a very "notable" by the standards of being well-known, widely-recognised, and likely-to-be-saught-information-on webcomic has been rung up on deletion charges because of being "not notable". Webcomics get generally ignored by most 'sources' because they're webcomics and, thus, not worthy of mention in their minds. The notability bar is, as you say, high - too high, in my observation. While it's true we can't have a page on every penne-ante comic out there, some of the ones that get nomiated and/or deleted beggar belief. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 03:10, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

Which still makes no bleeding sense to me. You don't have to argue on the side of the rules if you feel the rules are broken. If you think the bar is too high, do you also think that name-dropping it in the context of something else makes other works notable? Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 03:28, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

I pretty much agree with The Bushranger concerning notability and guidelines here (though I'd say a Hugo nomination can mean more or less depending on the type of work), but even so, we demand reliable third-party sources, because even more important than notability is verifiability. The article has plenty of footnotes but little in the way of reliable sources not connected to the creator. Can that be improved? /Julle (talk) 19:48, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

• Keep on WP:COMMONSENSE if nothing else (and I am NOT saying that's the only reason to keep it). I find it interesting that as an online encyclopedia we still basically demand that an article's subject get featured in the (paper) New York Times or similar before some will accept it as a "safe to retain" item. If Schlock Mercenary can be deleted as non-notable on the "letter of the law", then deletionists have won, and we might as well close Wikipedia down and hand it other arbiters than the public and the users (i.e. give it to media corporations like everything else). 125.236.217.145 (talk) 02:24, 14 January 2013 (UTC)