Talk:Hannibal Lecter/Archive 2

Who's the sadist?

The bit about Lecter showing "sadism towards animals" in Red Dragon - in the movie, doesn't that refer to Francis "Tooth Fairy" Dollarhyde?

The book does say that it was Hannibal, I have linked it. --Oldak Quill 19:06, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

psychology vs psychiatry

Help a newbie here. The main page refers to Lecter's disrespect for pyschiatry. This is not true; Lecter has disrespect for psychology, in which Chilton has a Ph.D.. It is psychology departments that Lecter refers to as being filled with "ham radio enthusiasts".

I've tried editing this mistake twice but the changes don't last. How do I correct this mistake permanently in the main article?

Another newbie here. It has been some time since I read the books but I also remember this being the case. Psychology was the subject of Lecter's derision, not psychiatry.

Thanks “another newbie”. I don’t get why my edits don’t stay. Maybe I’m doing it wrong. This is why I asked for help.

The fact that it IS a plot point that Chilton doesn’t recognize “Billy Rubin” as the bile pigment bilirubin (which gives feces the same color as Chilton’s hair) speaks to Lector’s disrespect of Chilton’s lack of knowledge of biochemistry—Chilton being an “academic dilettante”—without real scientific training.

Lector actually leaves a piece of toilet paper with Chilton’s name and the formula for bilirubin in subscript superimposed on it when he escapes. Lector tells Clarice to bear in mind Dr. Chilton has no medical training. I think this is a plot point that should be corrected in the main page.

Off topic?

Does the following belong in this article: Graham spent months recovering from his wounds, both physically and psychologically. A tabloid reporter, Freddy Lounds, humiliated Graham by photographing Graham's wounds and publishing them in the National Tattler. Graham did not return to the FBI.

Its totally unrelated to Lecter. If I get no response I may remove it. DKK

Benjamin Raspail

I thought Benjamim Raspail was killed by his lover? That's what it says on Silence of the Lambs (as well the movie).

-In the novel of 'Silence of the Lambs', Benjamin Raspail is on Dr.Lecter's couch having a doctor-patient session when Lecter stabs him through the heart with a stiletto type blade or letter opener. Lecter lies when he claims it was Raspail's lover who committed the murder.

• it was Jame Gumb who killed Raspail's lover (the head in the car), then Lecter killed Raspail (according to the Silence of the Lambs book) (131.130.121.106 09:18, 12 April 2006 (UTC))

It's an inconsistency in the films. in Red Dragon, it's clearly Hannibal who kills him, and it's also mentioned in Hannibalbut in Silence of the Lambs, they say about the moth that it is "just like the one we found in Raspail's head an hour ago", meaning Buffalo Bill killed him. It's an inconsistency, and i pointed it out in a recent edit, but if you feel I got it wrong, please edit and discuss, because I'd love to hear if I'm wrong on this (the movies were perfect in so many other ways that I'd be delighted to hear they were right) Karwynn 20:12, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Most Fearsome

"He is arguably the most fearsome serial killer ever depicted." Better to put this as the most fearsome fictional serial killer of all time. There were a few real-life killers that were more fearsome than Lecter -- although I would have to concur that among fictional creations, Lecter was the most fearsome.

How many known victims?

"Lecter killed at least nine people before his capture. He had three other known victims who survived, including Will Graham, an FBI profiler who was Lecter's captor and who figures largely in Red Dragon. Another one of these, Mason Verger, figures largely in the plot of Hannibal.

Only two of the twelve victims are known by name in the books: Benjamin Raspail and Verger."

I am no expert on the subject, but according to the first paragraph were not three of the victims known by name, the third being Will Graham?

That seems strange to me also. I don't know much about the books, so hopefully somebody who is an expert on them can fix it.--kenb215 16:11, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

The nine victims were those before Lecter attacked Graham as the two worked to find the murder (ultimately Lecter). Truth be told Graham was not by any means a classic Lecter victim. Much like Freddy Lounds with the Tooth Fairy, Graham was an exception to the usual pattern of the serial killer. Lecter had none of the ritualistic behavior common to an organized serial killer like the Tooth Fairy, but all his crimes were heavily sadistic, designed to inflict the fullest level of suffering before the death of the victim, which may even have been secondary. It should be noted that the attack on Graham was not intended to garner any suffering at all, as it was necessary for Lecter to kill Graham if he hoped to continue to operate freely.

Reason behind cannibalism

I believe the books give the impression that one of the several reasons why Dr.Lecter cannibalizes some of his victims is that this act is possibly the ultimate display of power, to slay and consume ones enemies. "If one does as God does enough times, one will become as God is."

Well, according to a website I consulted, it's more to take revenge on the male soldiers who raped, ate and killed Misha, Hannibal's sister, when he was 10 years old or so. That's why all of his "planned" crimes (not counting the ones while he was in custody) are men in their 30's 40's. By killing (and eating his victims), he wants to give a place to Misha in the world (he succeed in the "Hannibal" book, saying to Clarice Starling, as they flee together, : "And so I came to believe,that there had to be a place in the world for Mischa, a prime place vacated for her, and I came to think, Clarice, that the best place in the world was yours."

It should be pointed out that there is at least one glaring factual error in that website you consulted. Lecter murdered a Princeton student, who, barring a middle-aged person returning to school, we can assume was young. The motivations given for Lecter's killings in Hannibal are given by Lecter, which means we should take them with a great deal of skepticism.

Did Hannibal murder Chilton?

"It is unknown whether he killed Dr. Chilton, although he went missing soon after Lecter's escape."

I am pretty sure that Lecter sought out to kill Chilton, but Chilton died of a heart attack before Hannibal could get to him (in the novel Hannibal)

The book implies Hannibal got him. It states that he goes missing and is never found. --Oldak Quill 19:09, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

POV

Do you guys get it? Adding "arguably" doesn't factualize an opinion. All opinions are, by their nature, "arguable."

Coward

One could say that the entry about Lecter being a coward is mistaken. He knows what he is and doesn't deny it. Lecter doesn't show disgraceful fear or timidity. Also the stated exchange between Lecter and Starling was in their first interview when Lecter did not have any reason to disclose himself to Starling considering how "playful" he was to the people who came to interview him. What he didn't do was cooperate with the psychological tests to which he captors wanted to subject him and also on the interviews and that certainly doesn't qualify as cowardice. Rebel.Crusader

I'm going to revert it again, but state that its a theory and add yours as a counterargument. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean it shouldn't be there.--CyberGhostface 14:17, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

It is agreed then. Rebel.Crusader

I.Q. ?

Where on the novels or the films is "explicitly revealed" Lecter's I.Q. to be 200+?? If I get no response I may remove it.

I think it was in Red Dragon but I don't have the book with me.--CyberGhostface 21:31, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

IQ claim needs a source, please put the quote here before reverting Karwynn 15:28, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Karwynn, in "The Silence of the Lambs" it is stated that his intellect was not measurable by any means known to man (on the scene when he first meets Senator Martin, when they size up each other), there is another similar quote in "Hannibal" but nowhere I remember reading a number. Rebel.crusader 23:47, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

In the novel, Hannibal it says that Lecter's I.Q. was not calculable by any means yet known to man. It's from a read of 5 years ago so I remember correctly.. the I.Q. answer is mentioned in the book at the part where Lecter is thinking about what Dr.Stephen Hawkings said about time getting to a point where it may start to run backwards, and Lecter is writing down or doing in his mind some mind-bogglingly complex math formulas connected with Hawking's theories (or something like that).. and the book says something like there was literally only a handful of people on the whole planet who could have understood what Lecter's formulas said and meant. Dirk Diggler Jnr 16:12, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

6th finger?

I assume Hannibal Lecter got got some medical training sometime in his life, makes me wonder if they had 6-fingered-surgical gloves for him? :-) (clem 09:20, 12 April 2006 (UTC))

And his piano playing - in "Hannibal" (the book), he's banging out tunes in a piano, but unless he'd learned to play in the last few years, he's now doing it with one less finger than previously. Genius indeed!— Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.210.152.38 (talk • contribs)

Sociopath?

I've changed the category from 'fictional sociopaths' to 'fictional psychopaths'. While far from sane, the only requirement Hannibal has for sociopath is a lack of remorse.--CyberGhostface 19:22, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

His "nemesis"

Starling is not Hannibal's nemesis, so I changed it, and opened up a talk if anyone objects. I just think it's oversimplification and overdramatization of their relationship. Besides, what about the friendliness? Even if they were sometimes opponenents, I don't think they were ever really enemies. Karwynn 20:17, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

"Model patient"

Question: in the books, does it ever describe why Hannibal attacked the nurse in 1976? Tearing out her eye and consuming her tongue in the process... was there a reason? Did she offend him or was it random? The latter seems to be the case, but it also doesn't seem to fit his motivations. --AWF

Its not explained. I wouldn't be surprised if she did something to tick him off, although Hannibal's morality wasn't developed until later in the series.--CyberGhostface 00:47, 7 May 2006 (UTC)