Talk:Portuguese man o' war

How many individuals in one Man O'War?

I'm not clear from this article how many individuals (i.e. genetically separate individuals) make up one Man O'War. My reading of 'One of the polyps, a gas-filled bladder' is that the whole bladder is a single individual, which makes me wonder about the other three parts. Or should this be read as 'one of the polyp *species* form a gas-filled bladder'. Currently I'm not clear if this 'colony' consists of four individuals or many thousands. 62.232.250.50 (talk) 13:07, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

Reproduction

"Gonozooids are responsible for reproduction." Really? How do the gonozooids go about creating new individuals of the *other* three parts of the organism? What does 'responsible for' actually mean? Do the parts reproduce by cell division and then grow? If so, how do the new cells/individual parts organize themselves into a new Man O'War? If the three parts don't all reproduce at the same time, are there Men O'War floating around (temporarily, at least) lacking the full 'set of parts'? It would be nice if there was a separate section on reproduction, I'd bet the details are quite interesting, whatever they are. 62.232.250.50 (talk) 13:07, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

UPDATE: Comet Tuttle (above) seems to have answer much of this. One further thing is unclear - who many distinct genomes are involved? From Comet's comments it would seem to be just one; and the whole many individuals/colony issue a red herring (i.e. just as true of any other multicellular animal). 62.232.250.50 (talk) 13:21, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

Actually, Comet Tuttle asked the question, and I answered it. You have it absolutely right, it is a red herring. A Physalia colony is little different than a tree, which can bud roots, branches, leaves, flowers, fruit, and seeds. All of these tree parts work in synergy, have specialized functions, are physically attached to each other, and can't survive by themselves. Like the buds of a Physalia, they are not individuals. And we do not call a tree a colony of 'treeids'. So why is a Physalia called a colony of zooids?

Ah, there is the crux of this entire dilemma. Both the term 'zooid' and 'colony' are slightly misused in this instance. Normally in biology, the term zooid is used to describe an independently motile cell (or organized body) within an organism, like a spermatozoon. The term can also be used to describe an independent organism produced asexually by budding or fission. Normally, in a coral colony, an asexually budded polyp matures into a complete organism, connected to the entire colony while sharing nutrients and other essentials, but capable of survival if physically separated from the parent. Hydrozoans, on the other hand, bud connected polyps that mature into specialized entities that also share essentials with the entire group, but in this case, they can not survive if separated from the rest of the animal. It is my humble opinion that the term, colony, when used to describe an hydrozoan individual leads to a misunderstanding of its true nature.

When a plant has an underground runner that creates sprouts along its length that mature into independent plants, that could be described as a 'collection' of individual plants. However, a 'collection' of dependent parts within each individual plant would not be analogous to a 'colony'. It is amazing that hydrozoans have taken the budding of colonial coral polyps to the point that the parts are synergistic, but I really fail to see how that is more impressive than a tree. Didn't Joyce Kilmer say that first?

Gseymour (talk) 21:13, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Shouldn't this be in the article or something? I had the same issue and maybe I'm an idiot but the explanation above is a bit confusing, not least the plant metaphor, plants that form runners are essentially clones, they aren't performing a specialised function within the organism. Also, if its the polyps being connected that determines it, why isnt it the same for jellys and other similar cnidarians? I still fail to understand exactly how these are a colony of animals as opposed to one animal, they are all connected, they are incapable of independent survival, they all reproduce from the same organ, they perform functions analogous to organs in other animals. This just doesn't make sense.

Loggerhead Turtle as predator

"The loggerhead turtle feeds on the Portuguese man o' war, a common part of the loggerhead's diet. The turtle's skin is too thick for the sting to penetrate." Presumably they don't eat the sting then? 62.232.250.50 (talk) 13:07, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

Evolution

There is nothing here on the evolution of these fascinating organisms. It should probably be mentioned, if only to state that little is known about the details, if that is the case. Or perhaps the Man O'War (or some of its parts, anyway) have know related species? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.232.250.50 (talk) 13:10, 6 December 2012‎ (UTC)

While many details of the phylogeny of Cnidarians (sea anemones, corals, hydras and jellyfish) have yet to reach scientific consensus, the overall structure of the evolutionary tree has recently started to come into focus with the help of molecular analysis. The large and diverse phylum Cnidaria diverged from the Bilateria phylum about 600 million years ago. It is currently undecided whether the diploblastic (two-layered) condition of cnidarians results from a secondary simplification of a triploblastic ancestor of bilaterians, or from a diploblastic common ancestor, since cnidarians possess most of the genes that are implicated in mesoderm (middle layer) development in bilaterians. The expression of these genes in modern cnidarians does not confirm the simplification hypothesis, however, since bilaterians may well have co-opted their function after divergence. Future molecular studies will likely resolve this issue.¹

Early in its evolutionary history, the Cnidaria phylum split into two major lineages: the class Anthozoa (anemones and corals), and the superclass Medusozoa. Medusozoans encompass three classes, Hydrozoa (hydras and hydromedusae), Scyphozoa (true jellyfishes), and Cubozoa (box jellies). Most medusozoans generally alternate between an asexual polyp phase and a sexually reproducing medusa (jellyfish) phase. Certain lineages subsequently lost their medusa phase, such as freshwater hydras.²

The last common ancestor of modern hydrozoans likely produced medusae by a developmental process involving an entocodon (non-embryonic middle layer) and lateral budding from polyps. Hydrozoans then diverged into two clades: the Trachylina group that retained statocysts (balance sensors), and the Hydroidolina group that lost statocysts. Within the latter group, the order, Siphonophorae, eventually emerged, and subsequently parented three suborders, Cystonectae (with a float), Physonectae (with swimming bells), and Calycophorae (with both). Cystonectae has a budding zone on only one side of the base of the aboral float, without bracts or swimming bells.³ It contains the family, Physaliidae, with its only genus, Physalia, which in turn contains a disputed number of species. New molecular data suggests at least two distinct species, P. physalis (the large, Atlantic Portuguese Man of War) and P. utriculus (the small, Indo-Pacific blue bottle). A global taxonomic review using modern methods of analysis would likely change the cosmopolitan view of the Physalia genus in the same manner that a review of the Aurelia genus confirmed seven new, distinct species of moon jellyfish, where recently just one cosmopolitan species had been assumed.⁴

1) Investigating the origins of triploblasty: ‘mesodermal’ gene expression in a diploblastic animal, the sea anemone Nematostella vectensis (phylum, Cnidaria; class, Anthozoa) http://faculty.virginia.edu/shook/JustForMark/Martindale04MesoInDiploblst.pdf

2) Medusozoan Phylogeny and Character Evolution Clarified by New Large and Small Subunit rDNA Data and an Assessment of the Utility of Phylogenetic Mixture Models http://si-pddr.si.edu/jspui/bitstream/10088/6242/1/Collins_etal_2006_SystBiol.pdf

3) Pages, F., & Gili, J.-M. 1992. Siphonophores (Cnidaria, Hydrozoa) of the Benguela Current (southeastern Atlantic). Scientia Marina  56: 65-112.

4) Pontin, David R., 2009. Factors influencing the occurrence of stinging jellyfish (Physalia spp.) at New Zealand beaches http://researcharchive.lincoln.ac.nz/dspace/bitstream/10182/1580/3/pontin_phd.pdf

Gseymour (talk) 21:31, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Carbon Monoxide in the Bladder

Wittenberg (1960)[1] reported that the gases in the bladder contained 0.5 to 13% Carbon monoxide. The remainder was Air (oxygen, nitrogen and argon). CO2 was present in negligible amounts. Is this correct? --Diamonddavej (talk) 02:27, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Life cycle?

Anyone? Karin Anker (talk) 21:41, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

Treatment of stings

I have found that using a topical concentrated form of benadryl on the site of the man-of-war stings does a better job than taking benadryl tablets. Not only for this but I have used it similarly for bee stings is why I originally purchased it for. And have used it on myself friends and kids for the following, sting ray which is considered the most painful in my area, jelly-fish, wasps, ants, spiders, other than the sting ray in 5 minutes even the children 4 yo are ready to go back into the water. Have given it to the local doctor clinic and doctor reported to me she used it on several people, even a adult male with extreme man-o-wars severe full tearing mode. And he was fine again in 5 minutes.

I was not able to find any citations for this 5 or so years ago when I started using it, tried to but have been telling people about it. But now I have found even on the Mayo Clinic 's website they list it for many things not listed even by others like I have found like the ants and spiders. They added Scorpions, which where I live we have many and I have been waiting to use it but we see they listed it. On one of my particularly bad hits of man-o-wars under the arm-pits I was not capable of swimming back to shore and had to let the waves bring me in. I was able to walk home 200 yards with assistance with severe breathing problems, and sprayed myself and also took an oral benadryl because it was so severe, and in 3 minutes I was able to tell i was going to be fine. My breathing was getting easier. The oral had not had time to help because I have used it for 15 years and know how fast it takes to help, usually 10-20 minutes.

Here is some back-up information that benadryl is effective, the Mayo clinic as I said did not specifically list man-o-wars but they have listed many similar types of stings/venom that with the other sites I have here all put down benadryl, those seem to be all tablets. I even have one citation for someone ringing the tablet into a powder and putting on the site. As we know skin is an organ and can absorb chemicals like this. And the manufacturer has even put on shelves these extra strength with a generic label for itching, pain rashes associated with insect bites.

Too be clear none below specifically say use the concentrated spray here, only one says grinding powder on a very bad sting area, which was not man-o-war. Mayo clinic does not include man-o-wars, but has many other stings including scorpion again for tablets. I am connecting the dots and have 100 percent success rate with just this topical spray only, no other treatment needed. Which was independently verified by a local doctor in her treatments. I live in a active beach community where all these are present.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/first-aid-insect-bites/FA00046

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090315170352AA0FvrE

3) Benadryl is one of the faster-acting antihistamines, and is also very versatile in it's method of administration, important in severe, rapidly escalating anaphylaxis. You should carry the 25mg. gelatin-capsule form. The powder in the capsule form disperses rapidly, while the solid "caplet" takes longer to dissolve. Also, in severe cases, the sting site(s) can sometimes become extremely swollen and painful, due to a localized hyper-allergic reaction in addition to the bee venom. In this situation, if it is necessary to treat these sting site(s), an additional capsule of Benadryl can be opened up and the powder sprinkled directly on the skin at the site, and then moistened to a paste. The antihistamine is directly absorbed into the skin at the site, providing stronger local histamine blocking to the inflamed tissue. Additionally, Benadryl has (an unintentional beneficial side-effect) substantial anesthetic (pain-numbing) properties that begin to relieve local intense pain within about 30 seconds. Note: this additional topical dose of Benadryl does not need to be taken into consideration with regard to the original oral dose - it is absorbed locally and very little is absorbed into the bloodstream.

http://www.medicinenet.com/bee_sting_treatment/views.htm

http://chemistry.about.com/b/2011/06/01/treating-jellyfish-stings-and-man-o-war-stings.htm

http://www.uhpress.hawaii.edu/images/Product/medium/0824819004.gif

http://www.freemd.com/man-o-war-sting/treatment.htm

La ventana (talk) 23:42, 30 July 2013 (UTC)