Talk:Carlos Gershenson

Notability

(comments made by the author of the Wikipedia article have been moved to the end of the discussion as they should be, rather than the top)

Previous notability concerns were raised but not placed in context of academics. The author has overinflated his Google scholar H-index by citing himself a high number of times on every of his publications and falling into unfortunate practices of cross-citation with some of his subordinates. Also notice that if you look for books he is editor of several volumes, just as most academics and this should not lead to a favorable case of academic notability. The only book he is actual an author is a book published by a small printed-on-demand publishing company that publishes PhD thesis by invitation or request by the defendant. The decision should also take into consideration the concerns expressed here and elsewhere in connection to the systematic neglect of this author to mention any other research in exactly his own field in order to mislead people on the originality value of his ideas in connection to the many researchers in the same field doing similar, if not exactly, the same kind of proposals and even same kind, if not the same, simulations related to agent-based traffic modeling and self-organization that are never mentioned by the author in his paper or on this Wikipedia article he clearly wrote for himself. The criteria for notability according to the Wikipedia guidelines (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability_(academics)) are:

1. The person's research has made significant impact in their scholarly discipline, broadly construed, as demonstrated by independent reliable sources. 2. The person has received a highly prestigious academic award or honor at a national or international level. 3. The person is or has been an elected member of a highly selective and prestigious scholarly society or association (e.g., a National Academy of Sciences or the Royal Society) or a fellow of a major scholarly society for which that is a highly selective honor (e.g., the IEEE). 4. The person's academic work has made a significant impact in the area of higher education, affecting a substantial number of academic institutions. 5. The person holds or has held a named chair appointment or distinguished professor appointment at a major institution of higher education and research (or an equivalent position in countries where named chairs are uncommon). 6. The person has held a highest-level elected or appointed academic post at a major academic institution or major academic society. 7. The person has made substantial impact outside academia in their academic capacity. 8. The person is or has been the head or chief editor of a major, well-established academic journal in their subject area. 9. The person is in a field of literature (e.g., writer or poet) or the fine arts (e.g., musician, composer, artist), and meets the standards for notability in that art, such as WP:CREATIVE or WP:MUSIC. 103.246.96.185 (talk) 03:40, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

I have worked with Carlos at UNAM and I think some of the comments in this Talk page are too harsh. Unfortunately, I do think he has overstated his accomplishments and has managed to make others buy them too. Before the apparent recent additions to this article, it definitely read as an autobiography. As far as I know, Carlos is a SNI I researcher and that means a young, postdoc or at most assistant professor level researcher in his home country. His claim that he is a Research Professor is misguided, specially outside Mexico where such a title has much more weight and he knows it. He has also been very active in Mexico and was able to be appointed Head of his academic department but not because of academic merits, this is a rotating admin position that more senior researchers or more senior professors would actually try to avoid at all costs, not for Carlos that took it as a promoting platform. It has also been said he has been editor of several volumes and of a popular emailing list in his field, but he is only author only of a single book---his thesis---published by a thesis on-demand publishing company, editor of some volumes or an emailing list should not grant notability as this is common practice in academia. His prizes are of, I am afraid to say, rather low caliber, as part of a team of general contests that are of easy reach. His citations in PubMed or SCI are also very scarce because they do not count self-citations even if they take cross self citations with people Carlos has teamed up highly citing each other between colleagues that he himself seems to have hired in his home institution in Mexico, yet his SCI H index is relatively low, and extremely low compared to what one would consider a notable academic for Wikipedia standards. In brief, Carlos has no more or less merit than any other SNI I researcher in Mexico of which there are thousands even if it is a prestigious position and thus it is strange to see him have a Wikipedia article about him and not of every other SNI I (which were awarded that level because of similar merits according to the Mexican National science council Conacyt), let alone SNI II or SNI III, these latter deserving a Wikipedia entry. Wikipedia guidelines work in one direction, one cannot claim that someone is more important than the highest distinction given in his home country or working institution, he has certainly not accomplished anything of the sort to have academic notability to be of encyclopedic value but let's hope he one day does if he stops worrying so much about his looks and self promotion and starts worrying more about science for the mathematical institution he works for. Let's hope he comes about being honest on his own research, starting by citing the work of many others in his area instead of ignoring them to appear as if no one else had done similar research, if not exactly the same. His contributions to his area and community have been marginal in the light of all the research in traffic self-organization or self-organization itself for that matter. For example, in the area of Boolean networks his apparent greatest contribution is having surveyed the field (one of his many cited papers) and having given names to different updating network schemes but nothing or little else. To the community, he has managed to alienate all the researchers in his own area, not making them part of any of the events he is involved in and which he clearly uses to personally promote himself. I am not trying to diminish Carlos as a young scientist, it is just not right to overestimate one's contributions and he does need a reality-check that I hope he overcomes, otherwise this is not science or how science should be done. But I will leave aside piling more on what has been already said and I hope he comes down to reason. 181.41.198.133 (talk) 02:39, 3 June 2016 (UTC)

This talk has unfounded claims. Most of the citations to my works are made by other people (excluding colleagues). Self-citaiton is not a sin. All statements in the article have citations and can be verified, complying with Wikipedia guidelines. It seems that this "talk" is made by a single person using multiple IP addresses (VPN?), whose work was rejected from the ALife XV conference by peer review, and prefers to spend his time libeling the organizers instead of improving his work. Cgershen (talk) 18:13, 6 June 2016 (UTC)

I cannot speak for the others but no, I had nothing to do with ALIFE or any article submitted to it. The statements in the article are not much of the problem, the problem is your self designed article in contravention of Wikipedia guidelines and their COI policy. It is an overinflated Wikipedia article designed by yourself for your self-promoting purposes that reads as an autobiography and several others seem to agree with this. 103.246.96.185 (talk) 16:39, 7 June 2016 (UTC)

For the Academic Notability case, examining his 8 publications with more than 100 citations in Google Scholar, 3 of them are ArXiV preprints with no associated journal whatsoever, 6 of them are reviews or surveys, only 2 of them published as part of conference proceedings AND none of the 8 'papers' are published in a journal with Impact Factor, i.e. not even listed in the Web of Science (SCI). These 8 publications amount for more than 1200 citations to Gershenson, together with about 1000 self-reference citations from Gershenson himself it adds up to about 2200 citations out of his 2500 total (1600 since 2011). His PubMed articles are also dominated by PLoS ONE papers and has only 9 papers other than PLoS with some IF score. Taking into account this, his citations amount to perhaps less than 100 to and from journals with some IF different to 0 and his H-index comes down to perhaps 3 or 4 at most. This places this author in context and perspective. References (as of June 2016): https://scholar.google.co.uk/citations?user=fBRKCewAAAAJ ; http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/advanced; https://webofknowledge.com/ 199.71.233.34 (talk) 08:05, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

Someone created this webpage (see History), I just updated it. I followed Wikipedia guidelines of neutrality, please edit if I am mistaken. Concerning citations, the numbers are simply made up. No need to speculate. The fact that some of my works have been published in venues without an impact factor does not take any merit from citations to them Cgershen (talk) 17:22, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

Conflict of Interest (COI)

There is a stong suspicion that the subject of this article is making editions to his own Wikipedia page from IP 18.189.82.200 from where the author (Gershenson) claims to be currently located in (visiting MIT). This would also explain the excessive length, the overhype of the content and even some unfunded/potentially false claims made in the article. It is also suspected sock puppetry from the author's students and assistants who are making him appear more prominent. 103.246.96.185 (talk) 02:53, 23 May 2016 (UTC)ç

No conflict of interest defending myself against libel. Cgershen (talk) 17:48, 6 June 2016 (UTC)

The conflict of interest is to design/write and then also defend your own Wikipedia article and make unfounded claims e.g. that you purport the title of Professor in any part of your official title either explicitely or implicitely. At best you are a Research lecturer if you wanted to put it in an English (or Belgian as you say) style. 103.246.96.185 (talk) 16:39, 7 June 2016 (UTC)

To be of notice: Carlos Gershenson still looking after his own Wikipedia article in complete conflict against Wikipedia's COI policy:

(cur | prev) 17:32, 6 June 2016‎ Cgershen (talk | contribs)‎ . . (7,037 bytes) (-48)‎ . . (undo)

(cur | prev) 17:31, 6 June 2016‎ Cgershen (talk | contribs)‎ m . . (7,085 bytes) (-29)‎ . . (→‎Work) (undo)

(cur | prev) 17:30, 6 June 2016‎ Cgershen (talk | contribs)‎ . . (7,114 bytes) (-368)‎ . . (→‎Biography) (undo) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.27.56.3 (talk)

Notability in question and excessive self-promotion

Notice that the decision to keep this article of a non-notable Mexican researcher was based on 'Six papers with over 100 citations according to Google Scholar. That's enough to show anyone an authority in their subject.' Verdict that did not take into consideration self-citations and citations from his protegés, such as his research assistant Tom Froese, in regrettable practices of excessive cross-citation. This article is the result of strong self-promotion activities and not of any brilliant work or true notability. It is shameful to have such a Wikipedia article when so many important Mexican scientists are completely ignored by the encyclopedia and when this article is almost as long as some of the best world scientists. This is for the archive. 201.147.170.50 (talk) 15:29, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

Absolutely right. Notice how this 'scientist' Wikipedia article is even longer than some of the greatest Mexican scientists such as Dr. Prof. Antonio Lazcano (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonio_Lazcano) which is not only regretabble but also ridiculous. 199.71.233.34 (talk) 06:46, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

I think the author, Gershenson, should just reveal himself and be honest and ask to either downgrade the sel-promotion style of his lengthy Wikipedia entry or be humble and request page deletion unless he himself thinks he is notable enough versus e.g. his many Mexican peers that either lack of any entry or have much shorter entries despite being definitely more notable but less inclined to promoting themselves. 199.71.233.34 (talk) 11:17, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

It is interesting how people can spend time in libeling young researchers instead of expanding the Wikipedia pages of people who deserve it more (agree on Prof. Lazcano) Cgershen (talk) 17:59, 6 June 2016 (UTC)

You are wrong, part of the main purpose of editors and Wikipedia readers is to keep articles balanced and neutral and that includes to stop people making it a marketing platform for their own selfish purposes. 103.246.96.185 (talk) 16:39, 7 June 2016 (UTC)

Now that CGershen is around (at least now explicitly) maybe he can explain why he never ever cites anyone doing traffic simulation/self-organization experiments just as he does thus completely neglecting the most basic practice of science hence also misleading readers to believe that CGershen is the only maverick in a rather crowded area. That is extremely strange and dodgy and I hope CGershen can explain why this is not true and how he cites previous work by others who do similar work to his, if not exactly the same. Truly CGershen, I think people here are making you a favor by pointing out or the many grave flaws before it is too late in your early career to behave in such dividing fashion against good practices and against your own colleagues who have similar academic merits but are not self-promoting themselves all over the place to design a false sense of accomplishment. If you agree that other Mexican researchers (e.g. Lazcano mentioned above) deserve much better Wikipedia articles (than e.g. yourself, clearly) why you do not serve that purpose instead of coming to create your own cherry picked fact and hand-tailored self-promoting Wikipedia article. I may have participated or tried to participate in ALIFE and you would be surprised to know who I am, but under no circumstances I am acting because of a paper rejection or anything of that sort. It is a sense of fairness to all others that do a fair job but are less self-driven and more down to earth than you. 64.27.56.3 (talk) 18:09, 7 June 2016 (UTC)

I do cite previous work (I apologize if not yours), just read the papers. If I didn't they wouldn't be published in peer-reviewed venues. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cgershen (talk • contribs) 17:42, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

Possible grave offense in the usurpation of title

It seems there is also an abuse in the title used by this scientist perhaps taking advantage of the fact that almost any teacher in Spanish can be called a 'profesor' (even at primary school). This is, however, misleading in the English-speaking world, and Carlos Gershenson cannot be strange to the international practice and exclusive use of the title of Professor to that of someone given such a title officially (he uses the misleading title of "Research Professor" in his own webpage). Some researchers have long had a variety of reasons to seek media attention. Media coverage brings attention to their research, helps attract funding and raises their own profile for their personal interests. The case of Carlos Gershenson seems to be a typical case of hype and the selling of science, motivated by him and/or his followers. 199.71.233.34 (talk) 06:44, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

UNAM has the distinction between "Profesores" (teaching professors) and "Investigadores" (research professors). The first ones mainly teach at faculties and schools. The second ones mainly do research at institutes and centres. However, the levels are the same, (salary, tenure track, etc.), as it is noted in Title IV of the Academic Personnel's Statutes: http://dgapa.unam.mx/html/normatividad/epa.html See Also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_academic_ranks#Mexico — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.10.179.245 (talk) 17:44, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

I should weight in. The university webpage referred to, by who is seemingly Gershenson himself, in order to back his personal claim to the title of Profesor is that the salary of Researchers and Professors are the same at his university. That is clearly not a reason to purport the title of Professor to which he admits is a different position even in his home country. Neither in his country nor as interpreted by him in English he is a Professor as he advertizes on his own webpage and has taken it to the Wikipedia article that he has designed for himself. The many interventions of this user clearly indicates the COI stated above. 103.246.96.185 (talk) 21:30, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

It amuses me that you translate "Investigadores" as "Research Professors", seriously? Common Carlos. 181.41.198.133 (talk) 02:41, 3 June 2016 (UTC)

This is the typical example of someone writing his Wikipedia article and hurting himself a.k.a. self-inflicted injury for reflecting of what they think of themselves only in their minds. The best he can hope for is the deletion of his article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 103.246.96.185 (talk) 11:52, 3 June 2016 (UTC)

The equivalent of "Investigador Asociado de Tiempo Completo Definitivo" in other countries, e.g. Belgium is "Research Professor". It is a translation problem, and a difference with "researcher" (literal translation of investigador) is that in most countries researcher positions are non-tenured. In any case, this discussion is not relevant for a Wikipedia webpage. Cgershen (talk) 17:54, 6 June 2016 (UTC)

That still does not justify that you purposely want to mislead people that do not know the equivalences. As I said, you are at most a Research lecturer if that is what you intend to convey. No translation problem, only an ego problem. As for any other unfounded claims about you, could you be more specific? Is it false for example that you self-proclaimed an organizing committee of the conference you are organizing a 'dream team'? Is it false that you have fell into the practice of cross-referencing with people very close to you who you have either hired directly or have been involved in hiring them? Would you be open to a further investigation of the number of cross citation between these people and you? Is it false that you did not invite any other researcher in your own area from Mexico as speaker to the conference when you could have used such conference to promote local researchers and local research? 103.246.96.185 (talk) 16:39, 7 June 2016 (UTC)

I wonder why this, as some other researchers, believe that 'tenure' is a credential for anything above their work, it sounds more like a oedipus complex to me. But if he wants so badly to look childish and stick the tenured position to his title and he is not a professor he could just say he is tenured and not make call to a title nobody seems to have awarded him and no translation can back. It is not true either that researchers tend to be non-tenured (but even if they were, and so?) examples are in Australia, Germany, France and Italy in institutions as important such as the Max Planck Institute, the CNRS and the CRS. In the U.S. this is also the case even if more difficult, but usually researchers with tenure have greater status than their equivalent professors and even 'researcher' alone is of a higher caliber in several European and Asian countries because professor means they have to spend some or most of their time teaching rather than in higher intellectual activities related to research. Here in Chile nobody would have been so twisted to call himself a Professor in the English fashion if they were just starting their careers, that goes over the top and would be regarded quite cheap by their colleagues. 37.139.70.1 (talk) 18:34, 7 June 2016 (UTC)

By the way, if the author is using 'tenured' to denote seniority over perhaps his other Mexican colleagues or anyone else I have to say that I know every researcher in Mexico is tenured except for perhaps a few postdocs that are now hired on a fixed term contract in line with international practice, but those are a few compared to the international practice. Almost every person on a contract in a Mexican university has an open ended contract hence tenure, it is not an academic merit and should not be something to show off as a credential for academic merit especially to back any academic notability. It would be interesting if the author can explain why he thinks so strongly that he deserves his Wikipedia article that he has pushed himself and why he thinks he is so notable over his own colleagues in the same level as his. Because clearly people are asking especially those seeing through all self-promotion aside (e.g. it is the first time ever I see in a conference a full sub page devoted to the organizer: http://xva.life/portfolio/carlos-gershenson/ additionally with complete fake information, he is not longer head of any department, he is not professor, and I see no need to stick a super large picture of himself, needless to say a devoted subpage for you and your other colleagues that you were forced to create only to justify yours). The author apparently thinks at this early stage of his academic career that he is of encyclopedic value and comes here introducing and editing his Wikipedia article as if it were his personal webpage. I do not know CGershen so please refrain from accusing me of any vendetta, just stop and look at yourself, get real and act accordingly to Wikipedia guidelines instead of your own marketing agenda. 37.139.70.1 (talk) 04:35, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

In reply to 103.246.96.185

* Is it false for example that you self-proclaimed an organizing committee of the conference you are organizing a 'dream team'? Yes. The production company made the text, we changed it. Thanks for noticing it.

* Is it false that you have fell into the practice of cross-referencing with people very close to you who you have either hired directly or have been involved in hiring them? Yes.

* Would you be open to a further investigation of the number of cross citation between these people and you? Yes.

* Is it false that you did not invite any other researcher in your own area from Mexico as speaker to the conference when you could have used such conference to promote local researchers and local research? Yes. Antonio Lazcano was a confirmed speaker but had to cancel last week. We also tried unsuccessfully to involve other Mexican colleagues in the organization. Cgershen (talk) 19:24, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

In reply to 37.139.70.1: Tenure is a fact, and encyclopedias tend to include facts. Cgershen (talk) 19:29, 13 June 2016 (UTC)