User talk:Gwen Gale

bygone 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24

If I left a post on your talk page...

Please answer there. I'll see it, no worries.

Edelseider / RCS

Hello Gwen- Blast from the past here, from way back in the aughts! I noticed by chance that you had encountered someone a while back with whom I'm having some trouble at the moment. See User_talk:Diannaa#Bend_your_ear.3F for more info, and note that that post pre-dates the discovery that prompted my contacting you. I now see that this editor--a native German speaker who edits under the unified login "Edelseider" and, despite unfortunate language challenges, is these days most active here on en.wp--is someone you blocked in a past incarnation as User:RCS. First, do you know if it's ok for him to be editing here again? And second, if it came to it, would you be willing to mention on the ANI (see Diannaa talkpage link) something about his trouble-making past? The admins who have chimed in so far don't seem to have discovered Edelseider/RCS's contentious editing practices, and seem to be treating the issue like a spat between me and him, not perceiving, apparently, that I avoid directly engaging him. Thanks in advance for any attention you can give this; I understand that it's out of the blue and somewhat tedious... Eric ^talk 23:07, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

How do you know it's User:RCS? Gwen Gale (talk) 03:43, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

Sorry, forgot that part! By Edelseider's own assertion on his de.wp talkpage, at the beginning of this section (in German). You'll find an editor interaction analysis here showing 104 articles in common; not sure how much this tells you. I tried to find a tool that counts the number of different articles an editor has edited so I could compare the two accounts in that way, but couldn't find one. See also: RCS' last 1,000 contributions, Edelseider's first 1,000. Thanks, Eric ^talk 12:03, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

Hi Gwen, here is some proof. — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 12:32, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

Thanks. Yes, I do think User:Edelseider and User:RCS are very likely one in the same. I blocked RCS seven years ago. Indefinte blocks tend to go stale after a year or two, even if the software lock isn't lifted. He seems to have come back as Edelseider 4 1/2 years later. That's a very long time here. Had I been aware of that at the time, I think I would've done no more than left a note on his talk saying something like, "Hey there, I know it's you, no big worries, please be good :)" He has edited for 3 1/2 years with no blocks. As the blocking admin, my outlook is, "sounds ok to me." Hence, I don't see this as socking or block evasion as such and will not block on this alone.

Eric, the edits of some non-native-English-speaking editors can stir up some woe now and then. Cleaning up syntax and grammar takes time. The language/cultural barrier can indeed stir up misunderstandings. Donc, on se calme. One chills out and deals with it, hopefully like a pro (which takes more time), a big slice of being a truly helpful volunteer. See also this take on editing Wikipedia

Eric, please heed Diannaa's words of wisdom elsewhere. I know you're here in very good faith. However, from what I can see, you went astray not only by making personal attacks, but you way canvassed them (WP:CANVASS). Please don't do that again :)

Even when bringing up what one sees as untoward editing by another, one must back it up with diffs to edits straightforwardly outside the bounds of policy and stay wholly neutral in wording.

Meanwhile, I think the best and easiest way to settle this down is for you to stay away from Edelseider and his edits for a month or two. Gwen Gale (talk) 19:45, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

@Eric: is really going to enormous lengths to try and get me evicted from Wikipedia, I really wonder why. He should come clear and clean and tell us all why he is so obsessed with me. Yes, I used to be RCS (talk · contribs); I also used to be Insert coins (talk · contribs). And I have done a lot of good things here! I write and edit articles and from time to time, I lose my temper. Without me, Wikipedia would be much poorer in content. But I have never stalked somebody and bullied somebody the way Eric does. He should stay away from me and my edits forever. --Edelseider (talk) 20:11, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

Hi Gwen- Thanks for your time and attention to this. While I don't see my posts as personal attacks--certainly nowhere near the level of tantrums and direct insults that this editor has routinely engaged in here and on de.wp--I appreciate your input. I did not know that the multiple comments under his nominations would constitute canvassing; had I realized that, I would have only posted a single one to alert editors to the self-promotion, despite his multiple affirmation-seeking nominations (which I infer do not constitute canvassing?).

I wish I did not know of the existence of Edelseider and editors like him. But occasionally I run across editing messes where I cannot help but suggest better editing habits. And if my initial polite suggestions are met with rudeness and self-righteousness, my generosity tends to wane. When Edelseider bolted straight to the ANI, and seemed to be immediately taken for an innocent, injured party by some commenters, I felt I had to prompt them to take a closer look at him, despite my reluctance to reward his attention-seeking behavior. I restrained myself (with some help) from posting there about his history on de.wp, which includes three reports on him from different editors as well as two blocks for personal attacks. It vexes me that I even spent the time on him to learn those things, but I got the impression no one else was going to.

It's no problem for me to stay away from Edelseider; I never wanted anything to do with him. Thanks again for your time and advice. Eric ^talk 21:19, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

Both of you, please comment only on the edits, not the editor. Even saying good things about an editor may now and then seem like more than what's needed Oo. When commenting on what one sees as worrisome edits, one must always back it up with plenty of diffs and be way careful (stay neutral) with the wording. If good faith edits seem a bit sloppy or whatever, it's most often far easier and kinder to wait a bit, then go in and helpfully clean up the syntax, grammar and such.

I'd guess that, through the years, I've done this myself more than a thousand times, on copy written both by native and non-native English speakers. Still do. It takes time. It's work. If you don't want to deal with it, by far the best thing to do is, nothing at all.

Truly disruptive editors, such as those who let their lost, hot tempers show up on-wiki, sooner or later do get warned and if need be, shooed away from the kerfluffle or even blocked. Gwen Gale (talk) 22:46, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

Sorry, Gwen, I must have been unclear in my above statements. I know all about diffs, thanks. I wasn't trying to document anything here, nor prompt you to undertake any action beyond advising me, unless you felt compelled to add some context to the ANI complaint. At first I merely wanted to determine if the RCS connection and history were relevant to the ANI. Later, I was just trying to explain myself to you to clarify the original motivation behind my offending posts, and to assure you that this issue did not arise out of a quarrel. I'm quite done with the whole thing, thanks. I do appreciate your work here, and I'm sorry to have taken up your time with this unfortunate business. Eric ^talk 23:17, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

I wasn't talking about here. Meanwhile, Beeblebrox is waiting for your answer over at ANI. Gwen Gale (talk) 23:28, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

Ok, thanks. Not sure what to say there. I feel like I should never have dignified it with a response at all. Eric ^talk 23:50, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

I've been trying to help you. If you don't answer "yes" to an interaction ban between you and Edelseider (who has already agreed, voluntarily), Beeblebrox may likely make your side of it an involuntary sanction. I wholly agree with Beeblebrox.

By utter happenstance, both of you may want to read, at the top of User:Beeblebrox's user page, the quote from my dear old WP-friend User:Antandrus. It's so way fitting here. Gwen Gale (talk) 00:17, 8 April 2017 (UTC)