Wikipedia talk:Non-free content

See also: Wikipedia talk:Non-free content criteria exemptions

No consensus closes for NFC FFD discussions

Perhaps it is time to establish a consensus on the meaning of "no consensus" when it comes to FFD discussions involving non-free content use. Since WP:NFCCP clearly states that non-free content use is not automatic, and WP:NFCCE clearly states that the burden is placed upon those wanting to use non-free content to provide a valid non-free use rationale, the lack of a clear consensus means that the policy is not being met. There are, however, some who feel the opposite and that the default should be to "keep" a file in such cases. This probably needs to be discussed and decided upon via a WP:RFC involving a lot of different editors for whatever is decided to actually stand the test of time. I think this is an important enough matter in that how its decided is going to have a big impact as to how enforceable the NFCCP is going be in the future. Some editors seem to be of the opinion that the NFCCP should be more interpreted like "fair use" and is too restrictive in its current form. I'm not necessarily agreeing with these people, but "no consensus" to "keep" does seem to be further moving things in that direction. If that's what the project wants, then maybe the time has come to reassess the NFCCP and adjust it accordingly. -- Marchjuly (talk) 10:33, 8 July 2017 (UTC)

List of cast members, one image

I tried searching archives for a similar question, but a lot of conversations were over 10 years old so wanted to ask for knowledgeable persons response. If I wanted to add one non-free image into a new article for a list of cast members of a reality show (The Challenge), would the following case be acceptable for one image, with the rest of images being free-use content. The cast member has appeared on 15 of the 30 seasons, and has the most wins all time and most prize money won all time. There are several free use images being used in the draft I have, but I couldn't find a good image for him and wanted to see if using a cast photo[1] or preferably something found elsewhere would be able to be argued for fair use. Outside of MTV and The Challenge, he isn't going to have notability for his own page so the image wouldn't be used anywhere else. Any thoughts are appreciated. WikiVirusC^(talk) 18:40, 12 July 2017 (UTC)

If it was a full cast photo, that might be reason to do so, but that cast photo is just that person, and that's definitely not appropriate under NFCC#1 (he's still alive, a free image is possible to obtain). --MASEM (t) 19:12, 12 July 2017 (UTC)

There's been 30 seasons, there is never going to be a full full cast photo, there are full cast photos for individual season, but the list represents the overall list of people not just one particular person. I was specifying him because he represents 15/30 seasons, as said above. I was looking at the section on WP:NFLISTS particullarly #6 about "major characters". WikiVirusC^(talk) 19:19, 12 July 2017 (UTC)

However, this is a reality TV show, so there are no "characters", this is a person as himself on the show. We'd need a free image of him, as long as he is alive. --MASEM (t) 19:39, 12 July 2017 (UTC)

Okay, thanks for the replies. WikiVirusC^(talk) 19:43, 12 July 2017 (UTC)

Separate issue but still wanted to ask here, would the entire image found here[2] on Sean Duffy .gov page, be considered okay for free-use. There is no indication who took the picture, but on his copyright page[3], it states Except as otherwise noted in this website, all of the content of the website constitutes a work of the Federal government under sections 105 and 403 of title 17 of the U.S. Code.. So I'd believe it falls under public domain? If so does that mean the entire photo has to be used, or can modified selected portions be used as well. Thanks. WikiVirusC^(talk) 19:04, 14 July 2017 (UTC)

I don't think it is free/public domain. The PD USgov applies when it is the work of a federal employee as part of their job. There's no clear indication that's the case here, it could be one of the PR handlers for the reality stars, rather than for the Representative. We'd need to positively have that determined to call it public domain. --MASEM (t) 20:35, 14 July 2017 (UTC)

I have no source for it, but I doubt any of these specific stars have or need PR handlers. Regardless of that, the copyright notice they give says unless otherwise noted all the content on the site is work of the Federal government, and there is no notice of any kind or credit given to anyone else with the photo. The photo is taken when the congressman started the Congressional Ovarian Cancer Caucus, and he invited a few of the contestants from The Challenge for the launch of it. It wasn't just Duffy and the reality personalities, Rep. Rosa DeLauro of Connecticut was there as well who started the caucus with Duffy."Rep. Sean Duffy hosts a 'Real World' reunion on Capitol Hill". The Washington Post. ("The Real World" collided with the actual real world Tuesday when alums of the network's reality shows turned up on Capitol Hill to help Duffy, now a congressman from Wisconsin, launch the Ovarian Cancer Caucus.) {{cite web}}: Italic or bold markup not allowed in: |publisher= (help) WikiVirusC^(talk) 21:10, 14 July 2017 (UTC)

The issue I have is that on that same page, there is a picture of a shot of a CSPAN or some other news network screen. That's copyrighted (their photo being a derivative work) but it is not marked as such. That's why I don't think this site is a stickler for the "PD unless we say". (In contrast, NASA is one of those sites very clear when works are copyrighted and not NASA PD). It could very well be by a gov't aid of the Representative, and would be PD, but there's enough questions raised that I would not be comfortable allowing that to be the case.--MASEM (t) 23:04, 14 July 2017 (UTC)

It's C-SPAN though, it's clear that its from the thumbnail that is from C-SPAN, and its under public domain as well. From C-SPAN's copyright page: Video coverage of the debates originating from the chambers of the U.S. House of Representatives and the U.S. Senate is in the public domain and as such, may be used without restriction or attribution.. The image/video is from the floor of congress when Duffy was talking about a bill he was introducing that same day. Sorry for the million questions, I just wanted to make sure I don't do anything incorrectly. WikiVirusC^(talk) 23:15, 14 July 2017 (UTC)

Hmm, okay. Fair enough. I would say that all that allows for that image to be used in PD US Gov, but please on uploading make sure to link to the page you found it and the page that that disclaimer, so that should it be found to not be PD, we can at least assert a chain of reasonable evidence why it is PD. --MASEM (t) 23:34, 14 July 2017 (UTC)

Uploaded the image here, and added link to the disclaimer. Thanks for the help. WikiVirusC^(talk) 23:52, 14 July 2017 (UTC)

User:Wiki Feed Bot

I'm not sure why, but User:Wiki Feed Bot keeps adding non-free images to pages outside of the article namespace. I've discussing this with Fako85, the bot's creator, at User talk:Fako85#Non-free image use and thought the issue was going to be resolved. Is anyone aware of a way to set these types of bots up so that they do not add non-free content to pages? Does the problem have to do with something other than the bot? I can understand if this was a case of a non-free file shadowing a Commons file, but that does not seem to be an issue in almost all of these cases. -- Marchjuly (talk) 01:16, 18 July 2017 (UTC)

@Marchjuly: would you please provide me a recent example? This bot is currently in a trial but this concern was brought up during the proposal and we were told it was not going to be an issue. — xaosflux ^Talk 01:32, 18 July 2017 (UTC)

Please ping me when replying. — xaosflux ^Talk 01:34, 18 July 2017 (UTC)

Hi Xaosflux. Check the edit history of User:Wiki Feed Bot/Wiki Feed Demo/women for some recent examples. -- Marchjuly (talk) 01:37, 18 July 2017 (UTC)

@Marchjuly: OK - this will stop now - follow up will be on the BRFA, feel free to follow it. — xaosflux ^Talk 01:47, 18 July 2017 (UTC)

Hi @Marchjuly: and @Xaosflux:. The problem is that the image is initially marked as free. It is marked as free when the bot makes its edits. Then something happens in the real world and the commons image license gets changed. It is these changes that the bot is not picking up on. In other words it does not correct its own edits concerning image licenses. So this is a slightly different issue than what I discussed with Xaosflux. Before it was using fair use images at the time of editing, but I changed that after the talk with Xaosflux. I thought that these license changes on commons were rare and manageable. I'm sorry to see that this is a lot bigger issue. It looks like images get contested a lot on Wikipedia. There are three options I think:

• Remove all images from the feed. The easiest and in short term to most viable, but I'd like one of the alternatives in the future.
• A button like the emergency shutdown button on the bot page, which would prompt the bot to scan all the images it is using and correct automatically where the license changed. Not sure if Marchjuly would be alright with this approach. We discussed this before here User talk:Fako85#Non-free image use and it would require people to correct the licenses on the images before the bot can pick up on the correct license.
• Write a bot that checks changes in licenses and updates all images outside the main space automatically. Basically I'm suggesting to automate the maintenance that Marchjuly seems to be doing. I've asked around, but such a bot does not seem to be in existence. It makes sense for such a bot to exist in my opinion if fair use enforcement is important to Wikipedia and it looks to me like it does.

I would love to hear your thoughts about them Fako85 (talk) 05:58, 18 July 2017 (UTC)

I appreciate the reply Fako85, but some of the images the bot has been adding are not Commons images; files like File:Arya Stark-Maisie Williams.jpg, which is the last one I removed, and File:Dalemess.jpg, which I removed a few days ago, are cleary non-free content and probably would not last too long on Commons if uploaded there by mistake. These files were uploaded as non-free content locally to Wikipedia and their licensing does not seem to have been changed; so, I'm not sure where or how you are getting the info that they were initially marked as "free". Commons does not accept fair use of any kind per c:COM:FU. Of course, fair use files are uploaded there quite a bit because the uploader does not know better or sometimes because the uploader does not care, but these are typically speedily deleted as soon as they are found. There are some freely licensed images uploaded locally to Wikipedia, but these are moved to Commons whenever possible; therefore, there's a good chance that anything found locally on Wikipedia is going to be non-free. I'm not sure if you bot is able to determine where a file originates from, but if it's not a case of shadowing the bot should not be mixing up freely licensed files from Commons with non-free ones on Wikipedia. -- Marchjuly (talk) 06:24, 18 July 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for your clarification @Marchjuly:. This might be a bug in the API then as I'm really getting the free image. @Xaosflux: see [4]. I'll dig into this when I have time. Until that time it has been shut down. Fako85 (talk) 07:18, 18 July 2017 (UTC)