Wikipedia talk:IRC

plan to update page

Moved from Wikipedia talk:IRC/wikipedia-en-help

 – --Cameron₁₁₅₉₈ ^(Talk) 02:22, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

Hello, I am planning on updating this page and also:

• Wikipedia:IRC/wikipedia-en-help (talk)

also, I am planning on updating how information is displayed about IRC on:

• Wikipedia:Questions (talk)

I have two primary concerns that I wish to put forward:

1. more general information for users, and especially new users, about how to approach IRC
2. outline policy on how IRC users should edit Wikipedia (example: posting IRC logs on talk pages)

I plan to do this over the next month a little at a time and am very open to discussions, reaching consensus, etc.

Thanks!

Seahawk01 (talk) 01:26, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

What do you plan to update it to? Especially considering you've not discussed it with relevant parties, @Seahawk01:?Praxidicae (talk) 01:51, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

@Praxidicae: hey, I am discussing with relevant parties. That's what the Talk page is for, right? Seahawk01 (talk) 01:57, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

No you're not discussing it with relevant parties, you're discussing it with people you have a grudge against. Praxidicae (talk) 02:01, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

I agree with Praxidicae on this. The proposal seems to be in bad faith, simply based on a dispute they had on IRC and also a blatant disregard for #wikipedia-en-help's IRC policy by publicly posting logs. --Az1568 (talk) 02:03, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

Az1568 I was not aware of the policy at the time, but since then I and another member have made sure all those links have been removed. Seahawk01 (talk) 03:35, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

@Praxidicae: and @Az1568: please see below. Also, don't I have a right, as a member of the Wikipedia community, to make a proposal as to how a topic is to be dealt with? I would appreciate it if you both refrain from attacks and stick to the issues. Seahawk01 (talk) 03:31, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

Proposal to remove IRC chat from WP:Questions page

Moved from Wikipedia talk:Questions

 – --Cameron₁₁₅₉₈ ^(Talk) 02:19, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

Hello, I am proposing to remove the information on IRC chat from this page. The freenode IRC chat channels are not in any way affiliated with Wikipedia, so I think providing information here is very misleading and makes new users think it is an official part of the Wikipedia project.

There are some additional things to note:

• no oversight by Wikipedia of the IRC channels
• outside Wikipedia's formal channels and procedures
• no IRC public logs
• no records of discussions that lead to edits
• no voting for IRC mods on Wikipedia
• Wikipedia can easily host an IRC server if the project needs it
• no tags on edits due to IRC conversations, so no tracking

all in all, I find it very much the opposite of the procedures found on Wikipedia.

I will make the change and remove the information, but wanted to give a bit of notice first.

Seahawk01 (talk) 02:58, 13 December 2018 (UTC)

alternative

An alternative to removing the IRC chat information is to make more explicit the fact that IRC is not associated with Wikipedia, but run independently by volunteers and then link to more "new user" information. More information for new users can be added either at either Wikipedia:IRC or Wikipedia:IRC/wikipedia-en-help.

Seahawk01 (talk) 01:56, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

You appear to be doing this on a whim, solely based on a dispute you had on IRC with another editor. Simply for that fact, I'd say any removal would be rather biased, so imo you really shouldn't be removing anything at all. --Az1568 (talk) 01:57, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

@Az1568: true, I was initially motivated by a dispute. But, I'm pretty much over that dispute. On the other hand, I feel I was mislead as a new user into believing that the IRC chat was official because of mention on this page. So, I've decided to help out and redo policy on Wikipedia:IRC or Wikipedia:IRC/wikipedia-en-help plus rework what is on this article. Seahawk01 (talk) 02:02, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

If you took the time to read the page, you'd see there is a governance structure to how Wikimedia's IRC channels are run. So I'm not certain as to why you've proposed to unilaterally remove links to IRC and taking that resource away from everyone without first speaking to any of the folks that help run the IRC channels? --Az1568 (talk) 02:11, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

What constitutes "official"? The IRC channels are run by volunteers, as with basically everything. Vermont (talk) 02:53, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

(edit conflict):Are you purposely being disruptive? Praxidicae (talk) 01:59, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

Praxidicae not at all. Please see my answer above. Also, please note I am talking on the Talk page about proposed changes, not rashly changing anything yet. Seahawk01 (talk) 02:04, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

@Seahawk01: Can you please stop with the forum shopping? It gets confusing and is detrimental to consensus to have a conversation spread out across multiple talk pages. --Cameron₁₁₅₉₈ ^(Talk) 02:07, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

@Cameron11598: I am not forum shopping. I am trying to notify interested members. Why don't you centralize the discussion and we can precede proceed from there. Thanks. Seahawk01 (talk) 02:12, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

Seahawk01 Do you mean proceed? Praxidicae (talk) 02:14, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

Praxidicae corrected Seahawk01 (talk) 03:11, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

I'm moving this hang on a second before continuing the discussion --Cameron₁₁₅₉₈ ^(Talk) 02:17, 14 December 2018 (UTC) Done --Cameron₁₁₅₉₈ ^(Talk) 02:23, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

Cameron11598 this is great, thank you. Also, I want to discuss this over a period of a week or two. I wasn't planning on discussing it all tonight. Seahawk01 (talk) 02:25, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

@Az1568 and Praxidicae: I've centralized the discussion here just a quick fyi ping. --Cameron₁₁₅₉₈ ^(Talk) 02:27, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

How is this different than your complaint about IRC at Wikipedia:Village_pump_(idea_lab)#Suggest_Wikipedia_does_not_mention_IRC_as_a_source_for_help? Natureium (talk) 02:29, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

well, Natureium, I posted that before thinking. Then I thought about it and realized the proper course of action was to propose the changes on the appropriate article Talk pages, notify interested parties, and make the changes. So, I do regret posting to idea lab...that was rash. Seahawk01 (talk) 03:11, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

There seems to be some major misconception here that there is any sort of "official" Wikipedia help. All help, whether on the IRC help channel, or at the Teahouse, is provided by volunteer experienced editors. The IRC help channel is no more or less official than the Teahouse or other help forums on Wikipedia, except in that public logging is not allowed due to a variety of privacy concerns (especially for helpees, who may not understand the import of what they are disclosing). Removing the IRC help channel from the help pages would be detrimental as it allows new editors who do not understand how to post to talk pages or have other difficulties that preclude them making use of the Teahouse to ask questions, and to ask questions that are too sensitive to ask publicly. It is also blatantly contentious to post across a wide variety of forums about the same thing. Waggie (talk) 03:51, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

I have summerized the changes I would like to make at User:Seahawk01/IRC. I suggest we reach a consensus and then do a Wikipedia:Edit requests. Thanks Seahawk01 (talk) 23:09, 14 December 2018 (UTC)