Talk:Academic elitism

I nearly nominated this for deletion as original research. Since it's flagged for cleanup please add citations and represent both points of view. If nothing improves this looks like a deletion candidate. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by user:Durova (talk • contribs) .

I removed the NPOV tag. Please list the points here of NPOV if you want to put the tag in. Thanks J. D. Redding (PS., how was this original research?)

Although I think academic elitism is a real phenomenon, I agree that this article is original research. It's also biased and some of the points are basically crazy, such as equating the phenomenon of disregarding research by non-lettered people with having advanced classes for students who are not challenged by mainstream classes. Most schools have special education classes for the less intelligent - is that simpleton elitism then? No of course not. Having classes at different levels has nothing to do with academic elitism, it has to do with providing an education that is relevant and useful to each child. Xj 03:51, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

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Just a note ... it's a common knowledge article ... not to say that it needs a clean up ... and, this is interesting "AcademicElitism 17:41, 6 February 2001 JimboWales". Sincerely, J. D. Redding

Its claims are certainly not common knowledge, but are unsubstantiated assertions coming from a specific, radical point of view. Xj 03:53, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Academic elitism is an important and well-known problem, and it exists right here in Wikipedia (where "reputable academic journals" are sometimes preferred for verification over mass media sources, particularly by "academic elites" themselves). It isn't confined to the supposition that someone with a degree is automatically more knowledgable than one without; it underlies the widespread assumption that those with degrees are better-qualified for various kinds of employment, and should thus be preferred for higher-paying jobs. Consequently, as the cost of a university education continues to skyrocket, those who can't afford one are further penalized by vastly lower average salaries. Academic elitism thus hits them right where it counts, in the quality of their lives. Due to its heavy socio-economic impact, this problem is most certainly common knowledge among the general populace. Although the article could use a bit of shaping up, it does present both sides of the issue (in the form of "arguments for" and "arguments against"), and offers a decent list of references. Asmodeus 05:42, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

It doesn't strike me as very balanced; for one thing, it never discusses the positive sides of not forcing students who can read and do basic math to sit through the same basic material that they already know.--Prosfilaes 18:16, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Response: It's not balanced now, because you have attempted to skew the argumentation by removing plausible, perfectly legitimate "arguments against" on the absurd grounds that they require citation, meanwhile leaving pejorative terms like "crank" and "idiot" in place under "arguments for". They don't require citation, unless you can show the policy or guideline which says specifically that they do. However, if you were to succeed in doing that, then all of the arguments would have to be eliminated, because arguments require balance. In any event, you claim to have academic credentials, and by tampering with arguments regarding the nature and validity of your own credentials, you are engaged in a clear violation of WP:COI. Please desist. Asmodeus 13:16, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

That's an absurd reading of WP:COI, which says "an expert on climate change is welcome to contribute to articles on that subject, even if that editor is deeply committed to it", and would exclude one side almost completely.--Prosfilaes 13:28, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Read the guideline. "Any situation where strong relationships can develop may trigger a conflict of interest. Conflict of interest can be personal, religious, political, academic, financial, and legal. It is not determined by area, but is created by relationships that involve a high level of personal commitment to, involvement with, or dependence upon, a person, subject, idea, tradition, or organization." Asmodeus 13:31, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

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removed a line:

"One is often Intelligent before Academic, but sometimes the order is reversed. "

--Rj 19:22, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Citations for Arguments

An argument without a citation is original research. When articles start accumulating uncited arguments, they start accumulating rebuttals, and the whole thing starts turning into a debate. I have responded to many of the statements that Asmodeus wants to add to the article, in an argument we had elsewhere on Wikipedia; importing that debate here would bring in a lot of unpublished and non-notable arguments that would encourage yet more people to add more arguments. I've seen it elsewhere, and hope to stop it right here.--Prosfilaes 13:17, 20 November 2006 (UTC)